Welcome to FinHeaven Fans Forums! We're glad to have you here. Please feel free to browse the forum. We'd like to invite you to join our community; doing so will enable you to view additional forums and post with our other members.



VIP Members don't see these ads. Join VIP Now
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 26

Thread: CLUMP or MERMAN HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  1. -11
    Clumpy's Avatar
    is Clumpalicious!!

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Dec 2001
    Posts:
    9,330
    vCash:
    1000
    Loc:
    Clumptowaga
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Well, players often have bonus money due early in there contracts that "activate" extra yrs on a contract. What it essentially does is tie the player contractually to the team longer. If Miami pays the option, Fielder is under contract thru 2006. If Miami does not pay the option then he's under contract thru 2005. However, the option is due in 2004.
    Quote Quote  

  2. -12
    Merman's Avatar
    Super Bowl MVP

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Jun 2002
    Posts:
    1,374
    vCash:
    1000
    Loc:
    Miami
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Originally posted by clumpedplatelet

    Since the option will not likely be paid, it's not necessary to include it in the calculations
    Come on. First you want to show a roster bonus as guaranteed before it's offical and now you want to take an option out of team salary because it probably won't be paid??? Why bother with rules??? Just show every player's cap charge the way you expect it to turn out.

    Besides the "option amount" is suppose to be in team salary until renounced.
    Last edited by Merman; 02-29-2004 at 03:47 PM.
    Quote Quote  

  3. -13
    Clumpy's Avatar
    is Clumpalicious!!

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Dec 2001
    Posts:
    9,330
    vCash:
    1000
    Loc:
    Clumptowaga
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Why do I bother then?

    I try to explain in laymen terms so people can understand. I try to avoid using CBA contract language because it usually ends up killing threads and complicating the issue. I have a grad degree in Economics and I find the contract language confusing. I do things that try to explain what I feel has happened in order to explain discrepancies and I fully present my position. I try to use whatever resources I can to explain why I've taken a certain position. No matter what I do, other people always just try to shoot me down.
    Quote Quote  

  4. -14
    Clumpy's Avatar
    is Clumpalicious!!

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Dec 2001
    Posts:
    9,330
    vCash:
    1000
    Loc:
    Clumptowaga
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Originally posted by Merman


    Besides the "option amount" is suppose to be in team salary until renounced.

    This is not what AdamJT has said. It's amortized. However, how can Miami be charged for an option bonus that is not paid. If they release him NOW, nothing from that $2 million option will be applied to Miami's cap.
    Quote Quote  

  5. -15
    Merman's Avatar
    Super Bowl MVP

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Jun 2002
    Posts:
    1,374
    vCash:
    1000
    Loc:
    Miami
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Originally posted by clumpedplatelet

    This is not what AdamJT has said. It's amortized. However, how can Miami be charged for an option bonus that is not paid. If they release him NOW, nothing from that $2 million option will be applied to Miami's cap.
    That is correct, if Miami cuts Fiedler nothing from the option will be applied to team salary. But since an amount of the option is or will be included in the cap on 3/03, if he is cut the option amount should be included in any cap saving calculation. Would there be no cap savings for players’ 2004 salary or roster bonus if they were cut before 3/03/04???

    By saying it should not be included, I also understood that you thought that the option amount should not be included in the Team Salary total because it was "assumed" Fiedler was going to be cut. As it turns out he is not going to be cut now. This is precisely the reason I protest making changes until they happen.
    Quote Quote  

  6. -16
    Merman's Avatar
    Super Bowl MVP

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Jun 2002
    Posts:
    1,374
    vCash:
    1000
    Loc:
    Miami
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Originally posted by clumpedplatelet
    Why do I bother then?

    I try to explain in laymen terms so people can understand. I try to avoid using CBA contract language because it usually ends up killing threads and complicating the issue. I have a grad degree in Economics and I find the contract language confusing. I do things that try to explain what I feel has happened in order to explain discrepancies and I fully present my position. I try to use whatever resources I can to explain why I've taken a certain position. No matter what I do, other people always just try to shoot me down.
    Why do you bother??? If you are going to be high profile then you should expect some criticism both merited or not, constructive or not. What did you expect??? That others would just say Oh clump that’s great you are so smart and everything you say is right??? You have been on the boards long enough to know that no one is shooting you down. It’s called disagreement, discussion or debate. If you can’t take a little or any at all why do you bother???

    As for using cap contract language, I agree that trying to explain the CBA in simple terms is desirable to help others understand. Yet I have found many times that the CBA is so complicated that using other words to explain it comes out wrong or is misunderstood. Add to that how many fools just state something as fact, believing it themselves, when they don’t know what they are talking about. Stating the actual contract language cuts out the 10 B.S. posts back and forth to none. Everyone can read it for himself or herself and even if they don’t understand it all it is there for everyone to evaluate.

    The salary cap with all its rules that are contained in “The Collective Bargaining Agreement “ (CBA) is a very technical subject with many technical terms. These terms should be used and used correctly. By not using it people become confused. Like what the hell is “dead weight”??? Is that a player that does not perform well or is it signing bonus money that has become "dead money" because the player has been cut. How about "cap hit" is that the amount charged to team salary for the player's salary and bonuses or the amount of dead money that will be charged because a player is traded or released???

    The salary cap is like anything else if you want to learn about it you will. When talking about the game of football using the correct term helps others to understand. We use the term “wide receiver” not the guy at the end of the line. We use the terms the “defense blitzed the quarterback,” not the guys without the ball went after the other team’s ball handler. So who is the ball handler the center or quarterback??? Beginners always have to learn the jargon of any technical subject and using it correctly will help all of us to learn quickly and correctly.

    Now if you are going to take this post personally, don’t. This is just my opinion. Agree with it or not you are not going to hurt my feelings.
    Quote Quote  

  7. -17
    Clumpy's Avatar
    is Clumpalicious!!

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Dec 2001
    Posts:
    9,330
    vCash:
    1000
    Loc:
    Clumptowaga
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Constructive criticism

    Condescending criticism :down:

    I've noticed in the culture of "cyber-capologists" that some tend to come across as excessively harsh in their comments, whether justified or not. Their comments are often taken as "condescending" because of using CBA contract language. Many times people just don't respond because they cannot make an argument at the same level. I'm trying to introduce people to the subject and educate. Cannot start at too high a level (like my Immunology professor did) or there will only be a handful of posters using this forum. I do not want that.

    I welcome criticism. I welcome other opinions. Sometimes it's necessary to make an educated guess in order to explain discrepancies and resolve differences. Through this sometimes comes the correct interpretation of a provision.

    I hope you understand my position
    Last edited by Clumpy; 03-01-2004 at 09:33 AM.
    Quote Quote  

  8. -18
    DeDolfan's Avatar
    Hall Of Famer

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Jan 2003
    Posts:
    7,311
    vCash:
    1000
    Loc:
    Rehoboth Beach
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Originally posted by clumpedplatelet
    Well, players often have bonus money due early in there contracts that "activate" extra yrs on a contract. What it essentially does is tie the player contractually to the team longer. If Miami pays the option, Fielder is under contract thru 2006. If Miami does not pay the option then he's under contract thru 2005. However, the option is due in 2004.
    So, you're saying that we don't hAVE to pay it at all and if we don't then he's done in 2 yrs instead of 3? OK, that's better, so if we don't pay it, then his cap # will be a little over 4.8 this year. But if we just cut his arse now, it would be a toalt hit of 3.3+, the remaining amortized bonus for the 3 yrs left, but if we cut him after 6/1, it will be only 1.1+ this yr and 2.2+ next? if so, cut him after 6/1 and use that $$ on other fA cuts, eh?
    DD..................the #1 Delaware Dolfan !!!



    Doing things you don't have to do today will help to determine where you'll be tomorrow when you can't do anything about it!
    Quote Quote  

  9. -19
    Clumpy's Avatar
    is Clumpalicious!!

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Dec 2001
    Posts:
    9,330
    vCash:
    1000
    Loc:
    Clumptowaga
    Thanks / No Thanks
    If you don't pay it, then bonus money that was amortized into 2006 would accelerated into either just 2004 or both 2004 & 2005. Either way, his cap number will increase by not paying the bonus


    This is all moot because it looks like Fiedler will be getting a new deal that eliminates this bonus
    Quote Quote  

  10. -20
    DeDolfan's Avatar
    Hall Of Famer

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Jan 2003
    Posts:
    7,311
    vCash:
    1000
    Loc:
    Rehoboth Beach
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Originally posted by Merman


    Why do you bother??? If you are going to be high profile then you should expect some criticism both merited or not, constructive or not. What did you expect??? That others would just say Oh clump that’s great you are so smart and everything you say is right??? You have been on the boards long enough to know that no one is shooting you down. It’s called disagreement, discussion or debate. If you can’t take a little or any at all why do you bother???

    As for using cap contract language, I agree that trying to explain the CBA in simple terms is desirable to help others understand. Yet I have found many times that the CBA is so complicated that using other words to explain it comes out wrong or is misunderstood. Add to that how many fools just state something as fact, believing it themselves, when they don’t know what they are talking about. Stating the actual contract language cuts out the 10 B.S. posts back and forth to none. Everyone can read it for himself or herself and even if they don’t understand it all it is there for everyone to evaluate.

    The salary cap with all its rules that are contained in “The Collective Bargaining Agreement “ (CBA) is a very technical subject with many technical terms. These terms should be used and used correctly. By not using it people become confused. Like what the hell is “dead weight”??? Is that a player that does not perform well or is it signing bonus money that has become "dead money" because the player has been cut. How about "cap hit" is that the amount charged to team salary for the player's salary and bonuses or the amount of dead money that will be charged because a player is traded or released???

    The salary cap is like anything else if you want to learn about it you will. When talking about the game of football using the correct term helps others to understand. We use the term “wide receiver” not the guy at the end of the line. We use the terms the “defense blitzed the quarterback,” not the guys without the ball went after the other team’s ball handler. So who is the ball handler the center or quarterback??? Beginners always have to learn the jargon of any technical subject and using it correctly will help all of us to learn quickly and correctly.

    Now if you are going to take this post personally, don’t. This is just my opinion. Agree with it or not you are not going to hurt my feelings.
    yes, yes, YES !! Jamar Flectcher fit YOUR "definitiion" of dead weight!!

    Quote Quote  

Similar Threads

  1. A Question for Merman and Clump...
    By musphinzfan in forum Salary Cap Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 02-04-2004, 09:57 AM
  2. Serious Props To Merman!!!!
    By unclemonty in forum Miami Dolphins Forum
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 12-01-2003, 08:53 PM
  3. TO Clump
    By Chubby in forum Miami Dolphins Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-11-2003, 09:42 AM
  4. Clump!!!!
    By MarinoFan in forum The Depths of the Sea
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 01-26-2003, 03:56 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •