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Thread: Phins Pass Rush- A Closer Look

  1. -21
    dlockz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southbeach 2 View Post
    For those undecided on where a pass rusher is on our list of needs, here's some info to help decide.

    Cam Wake rushed the QB 559 times last year. He had 17 sacks, 23 QB hits, and 47 QB hurries. He did this while all opposing teams completely focused on stopping him, having little regard on any other pass rusher.

    Pee Wee Odrick rushed 566 times, with 6 sacks, 10 hits, and 21 hurries. I saw some of those sacks and hits caused by Wake flushing the QB to him. NOT a productive year, and not ever average.

    Vernon rushed the QB 289 times, with 3 sacks, 7 hits, and 11 hurries. He was about the same as Odrick in limited play as a rookie still learning, close vs the run, and did well in coverage, also limited.

    When you combine the stats of Odrick and Vernon, they look pretty good but, when you look at the number of pass rushes it took, NOT so good.

    Starks rushed the QB 488 times, with 4 sacks, 11 hits, and 21 hurries. His play really fell off but, anyone who has lost their Mom could understand him not being focused.

    Burnett rushed the QB 115 times, with 2 sacks, 6 hits, and 7 hurries. Not bad for an OLB, who rarely get to the QB.

    Now for the very intriguing silent one, in Koa Misi. He rushed the QB 141 times, with 6 sacks, 2 hits, and 6 hurries in only 13 games. To put that in a sack perspective for 4-3 OLB's, Von Miller is in a class by himself with 19 sacks. Denver's Woodyard and Titan's Ayers were second with 7, and then there was Misi with 6. Thing is the other 3 had 300-400 more snaps to get their sacks.

    This poses an interesting question for this year. JT was quoted in saying that Misi was going to be a VG pass rusher, and I am not one to ague with him. Depending on how things shake out in this off season, could could a Misi/Vernon combo be an answer at DE. while adding another OLB?

    Wake had 15 sacks so not sure how your other numbers stack up
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  2. -22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southbeach 2 View Post
    Uh, can you be a little more vague?
    The majority if his sacks were from DT.
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  3. -23
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    For those wondering about where Odrick's sacks came from, I went and checked all 5.0 of them (six instances, four full sacks and two half sacks). Here's what I found:

    Week 3 vs Jets (0.5) right defensive tackle(split with Vernon at RDE)

    Week 4 at Cardinals (1.0) right defensive tackle

    Week 5 at Bengals (.5) right defensive end(pressure from left side pushed Dalton into Odrick)

    Week 12 vs Seahawks (1.0) right defensive end

    Week 14 at 49ers (1.0) left defensive tackle

    Week 15 vs Jaguars (1.0) left defensive tackle


    Conclusion: 3.5 of Odrick's five sacks (four of six instances) came from defensive tackle. The other two came from defensive end in a heavy front with Starks, Soliai and Wake next to him from nearest to farthest. Not only that, but one of the sacks from defensive end was really more luck than pass-rushing skill, as pressure from Starks and Soliai pushed Dalton into Odrick.

    Essentially, this shows what we should already know--Odrick is playing out of position at defensive end and would move inside to defensive tackle if the Dolphins were to let Starks walk or part ways with Soliai.
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    Why not put Misi at DE and Vernon at OLB?
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  5. -25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Why not put Misi at DE and Vernon at OLB?
    In our current 4-3 scheme, DEs rush the passer and OLBs really do not. Misi failed miserably as a pass rusher and has really only shown himself to be good at playing SOLB in the 4-3, stuffing the run. Vernon, at least for now, is still supposed to rush the passer and develop there, which is why he'd stay at DE.
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  6. -26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisJNelson View Post
    For those wondering about where Odrick's sacks came from, I went and checked all 5.0 of them (six instances, four full sacks and two half sacks). Here's what I found:

    Week 3 vs Jets (0.5) right defensive tackle(split with Vernon at RDE)

    Week 4 at Cardinals (1.0) right defensive tackle

    Week 5 at Bengals (.5) right defensive end(pressure from left side pushed Dalton into Odrick)

    Week 12 vs Seahawks (1.0) right defensive end

    Week 14 at 49ers (1.0) left defensive tackle

    Week 15 vs Jaguars (1.0) left defensive tackle


    Conclusion: 3.5 of Odrick's five sacks (four of six instances) came from defensive tackle. The other two came from defensive end in a heavy front with Starks, Soliai and Wake next to him from nearest to farthest. Not only that, but one of the sacks from defensive end was really more luck than pass-rushing skill, as pressure from Starks and Soliai pushed Dalton into Odrick.

    Essentially, this shows what we should already know--Odrick is playing out of position at defensive end and would move inside to defensive tackle if the Dolphins were to let Starks walk or part ways with Soliai.

    Interesting. Nice job on the research. Thats good info to know.
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    Phins Pass Rush- A Closer Look

    I can't wait to see how Vernon develops after a full offseason in a nfl program. I think this kid could be a stud for us
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisJNelson View Post
    For those wondering about where Odrick's sacks came from, I went and checked all 5.0 of them (six instances, four full sacks and two half sacks). Here's what I found:

    Week 3 vs Jets (0.5) right defensive tackle(split with Vernon at RDE)

    Week 4 at Cardinals (1.0) right defensive tackle

    Week 5 at Bengals (.5) right defensive end(pressure from left side pushed Dalton into Odrick)

    Week 12 vs Seahawks (1.0) right defensive end

    Week 14 at 49ers (1.0) left defensive tackle

    Week 15 vs Jaguars (1.0) left defensive tackle


    Conclusion: 3.5 of Odrick's five sacks (four of six instances) came from defensive tackle. The other two came from defensive end in a heavy front with Starks, Soliai and Wake next to him from nearest to farthest. Not only that, but one of the sacks from defensive end was really more luck than pass-rushing skill, as pressure from Starks and Soliai pushed Dalton into Odrick.

    Essentially, this shows what we should already know--Odrick is playing out of position at defensive end and would move inside to defensive tackle if the Dolphins were to let Starks walk or part ways with Soliai.
    exactly what i thought ! on where he got his sacks !!, i know odrich is a ready made replacement for starks, and be cheaper, but i have doubts he can hold up against the run in a 4-3 and rush the passer from a dt spot in nickel and dime all season long!! , yes he did have the most snap count amongst def lineman this year , but i still have doubts ! big ones ! without starks and mcDaniel [who had a shocker of a year] our one time strength def line will become a weakness !
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  9. -29
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    Quote Originally Posted by moley View Post
    exactly what i thought ! on where he got his sacks !!, i know odrich is a ready made replacement for starks, and be cheaper, but i have doubts he can hold up against the run in a 4-3 and rush the passer from a dt spot in nickel and dime all season long!! , yes he did have the most snap count amongst def lineman this year , but i still have doubts ! big ones ! without starks and mcDaniel [who had a shocker of a year] our one time strength def line will become a weakness !
    I love Starks, but it doesn't make sense to pay him right now. McDaniel is useless.
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  10. -30
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlockz View Post
    Wake had 15 sacks so not sure how your other numbers stack up
    The OP might be using PFF's stats, which I think can be different from offiical box scores and records.

    Southbeach, where are you pulling these numbers from?
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