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Thread: The Book on Ireland's Drafts

  1. -11
    Spesh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valandui View Post
    Also, our first overal pick is about to be on another team. Two out of five being gone already isn't solid, especially when you look at who we passed on.
    Lets keep it going: Jared Odrick is either delegated to playing a position he isnt suited for or he is a back-up. Mike Pouncey is a good player but was the highest drafted center ever.

    Simply plugging holes, especially when you dont plug them and trade/let the player walk later, isnt enough. Quality of the players matter. As well, our general manager clearly places a premium on positional importance. Offensive lineman have a higher hit rate than, say, quarterback or pass rushers. To declare it a victory because Ireland drafted 2 lineman in 4 years is absurd, especially since it looks like Long is walking. I dont see it as any different then us drafting a kicker in the first then declaring Ireland's "success" rate in the first is outstanding because he "hasnt" busted on a player.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valandui View Post
    It can't be both ways. You can't whiff on 40% of your picks and also be solid in the first round. Add in all of the second round misses and it isn't a pretty picture.
    Jake Long went to 3 pro bowls on this team. He contributed. How can a pro bowl player be a whiff if he contributed on a high level for several years? If RG3 is out of the league in 3 years due to injuries, is he a whiff too? I think you guys are aging semantics at this point. Both Vontae and Jake contributes greatly to the team while they were here, unlike Ginn and Allen. For that reason, I wouldn't consider them whiffed picks.
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  3. -13
    Spesh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkapePhin View Post
    Jake Long went to 3 pro bowls on this team. He contributed. How can a pro bowl player be a whiff if he contributed on a high level for several years? If RG3 is out of the league in 3 years due to injuries, is he a whiff too? I think you guys are aging semantics at this point. Both Vontae and Jake contributes greatly to the team while they were here, unlike Ginn and Allen. For that reason, I wouldn't consider them whiffed picks.
    Yup. Spending a top 2 pick on a player who gives you 5(or in this case 3) years? Absolutely a whiff.

    Lets flip this around: what about Robert Gallery. Is he a whiffed draft pick or not? He was a horrific tackle, just a complete bust for where he was picked, but he had a good season at guard. By all accounts, you would consider that a "solid" second overall pick.

    How about Ronnie Brown? He was actually on the team for a winning season, but had what...1 good statistical season? Was he a "solid" draft pick?

    What is your criteria for "non-whiffed" picks? 5 good seasons? If they have a single good year but are hot garbage for 4, do you consider that a great pick? How about if they never contribute to a winning record, still a great pick?

    Apparently, myself and others have a higher opinion on first round picks. Granted, some consider Ireland a great general manager so they might have a skewed opinion on the importance of draft picks.
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  4. -14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkapePhin View Post
    You would need to compar it against drafts from other GMs during that time period to really make sense of the data. Can't really compare it in a vacuum. You need to determine what is the success rate of draft picks in each round for "successful" GMs and then compare Ireland's work against that.
    That wouldn't work because it's more difficult for a draft pick to make a top team versus a team coming off a 1-15 season where most of the draft class should become the nucleus for the future. Look at our 2008 draft when 9 players were selected and all nine players are no longer on this team.




    Plus we don't know how much of a say Ireland had in the early drafts and even though I have doubts galore regarding Ireland
    I cannot definitively say WHICH PLAYERS HE WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valandui View Post
    Also, our first overal pick is about to be on another team. Two out of five being gone already isn't solid, especially when you look at who we passed on.

    Long was a wiff because he might go to another team that will essentially outbid us? That's not a whiff if he is desired by other teams, as a matter a fact with all his 2012 woes and once Clady is locked up by Denver, if Long hits the Market he will be the most desired FA LT... Hardly a wiff

    VD wasn't a whiff either, before the season started we got a 2nd round pick from the team that had the 1st overall pick just months prior... Just our luck the Colts go and turn a 2-14 team into a playoff team... Guys like Allen and Jamar Flethcher, now those are whiffs!
    Last edited by The Omen; 01-09-2013 at 05:21 PM.
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    *Whiff* is definately NOT the right term to describe our draft picks from the 1st round. First Whiff is a swing and miss without even touching the ball on a strikeout. Long Obviously is a good player. Vontae was good enough to still have a 2nd round value. NOT Whiffs.

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  7. -17
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    The Book on Ireland's Drafts



    They made a book about THIS? Good luck selling that!
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  8. -18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkapePhin View Post
    Find me another team whose 1st round picks over a 5 years span are still all starters in the same team in year 6? I would actually be very interested to know.
    Same time period that Ireland has had:

    Atlanta
    2008 - Matt Ryan, Sam Baker
    2009 - Peria Jerry
    2010 - Sean Weatherspoon
    2011 - Julio Jones
    2012 - None, traded to Cleveland in trade up for Jones.

    Cleveland
    2008 - None, didn't have a pick till the 4th round
    2009 - Alex Mack
    2010 - Joe Haden
    2011 - Phillip Taylor
    2012 - Trent Richardson, Brandon Weeden

    Detroit
    2008 - Gosder Cherilus
    2009 - Matt Stafford, Brandon Pettigrew
    2010 - Ndamukong Suh, Jahvid Best (miss all of last season due to concussions)
    2011 - Nick Fairley
    2012 - Riley Reiff

    Houston
    2008 - Duane Brown
    2009 - Brian Cushing
    2010 - Kareem Jackson
    2011 - J.J. Watt
    2012 - Whitney Mercilus (only 4 starts though)

    I'll stop there.
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  9. -19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spesh View Post
    So buying high and selling low is a shrewd strategy for team building? Its perfectly acceptable for your first round picks to not be on your team so long as you get lower value for them?

    And what wins did Vontae contribute towards? He was drafted in '09. We havent had a winning season since '08. Were those 7-9 and 6-10 seasons that valuable to the history of this franchise? It wouldnt surprise me if some on this forum felt that they were.
    Also, Clay Matthews would still be on the team.

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  10. -20
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkapePhin View Post
    Solid in Round 1
    Poor/Mediocre in Round 2 & 3
    Good/Solid in Round 4 - 7
    Good/Great with Undrafted FA

    Doesn't bode well for the 5 picks in 1st 3 rounds, but this seems to be the book on his drafts. He has yet to completely whiff in Round 1 which is good, but he has some notable gaffes in round 2 & 3. Does a pretty solid job on all the late round picks.

    Agree or Disagree?
    So, is it good or bad that we have 4 picks this year in the range where Ireland drafts the worst?
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