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Thread: Biden's gun control speech interrupted with news of school shooting

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    Locke's Avatar
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    Biden's gun control speech interrupted with news of school shooting

    A shooting has been reported at Taft Union High School in Taft, California, KERO reports.

    The shooting suspect is in custody, according to ABC 7.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2449261.html

    This was the breaking news that interrupted the Vice President's press conference regarding gun control. Other news sources report that this particular high school has an armed deputy on campus at all times. He was unable to prevent the shooting, obviously. Although this was different in that it seems a particular student was the target, and the shooter brought in the concealed weapon and had intentions of shooting only the one person, so the situations are not the same. But it does highlight the flaws with the whole "more guns, less crime" plan that is being floated around....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Locke View Post
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2449261.html

    This was the breaking news that interrupted the Vice President's press conference regarding gun control. Other news sources report that this particular high school has an armed deputy on campus at all times. He was unable to prevent the shooting, obviously. Although this was different in that it seems a particular student was the target, and the shooter brought in the concealed weapon and had intentions of shooting only the one person, so the situations are not the same. But it does highlight the flaws with the whole "more guns, less crime" plan that is being floated around....
    So, we can dismiss the Secret Service detail AND the 11 armed guards at the school the Obamas send their kids to school ?

    This wasn't even close to comparable to Newtown or Columbine. This was one kid that wanted to kill another. How about we focus on the kid being warped and let the weapon go for now. If he didnt have a gun, would it be different if he had drove an ice pick into the back of the kids head?

    Lets get the Executive Order moving now.....i can't wait for the show


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    Quote Originally Posted by MoFinz View Post
    So, we can dismiss the Secret Service detail AND the 11 armed guards at the school the Obamas send their kids to school ?

    This wasn't even close to comparable to Newtown or Columbine. This was one kid that wanted to kill another. How about we focus on the kid being warped and let the weapon go for now. If he didnt have a gun, would it be different if he had drove an ice pick into the back of the kids head?

    Lets get the Executive Order moving now.....i can't wait for the show
    You want me to get psychological? There is a reason guns are the weapon of choice for violent crimes, especially among young men. It's the least personal way to kill someone. You need to get close enough to someone to see the life leaving their face to kill them with other methods. That's a level of intimacy most people are unable, or unwilling, to do. So no, without a gun, it's a VERY safe assumption that this victim is not assaulted.

    I don't see what Obama or his family have to do with this, but the secret service has protected the first family for centuries. I don't see the relevance. They would have that armed detail with them wherever they go, whether that be school, church, the arcade, the park, or anywhere. You're sensationalizing. The fact is an armed police officer was unable to prevent this shooting. Since the Newport shooting, everyone's go to solution is having armed police officers on campus. Well here is a case study, and it didn't turn out the way the NRA says it would. So now what...?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locke View Post
    You want me to get psychological? There is a reason guns are the weapon of choice for violent crimes, especially among young men. It's the least personal way to kill someone. You need to get close enough to someone to see the life leaving their face to kill them with other methods. That's a level of intimacy most people are unable, or unwilling, to do. So no, without a gun, it's a VERY safe assumption that this victim is not assaulted.

    I don't see what Obama or his family have to do with this, but the secret service has protected the first family for centuries. I don't see the relevance. They would have that armed detail with them wherever they go, whether that be school, church, the arcade, the park, or anywhere. You're sensationalizing. The fact is an armed police officer was unable to prevent this shooting. Since the Newport shooting, everyone's go to solution is having armed police officers on campus. Well here is a case study, and it didn't turn out the way the NRA says it would. So now what...?
    This kid at the school shooting used a 12 gauge shotgun, hardly an instrument of mass shootings


    I don't think he is saying that no school shootings will ever happened with armed guards at schools. He is just saying the collateral damage would be less. He was also pointing out the irony that all of the people that hate guns (Obama and that stupid newspaper) don't mind having armed guards around them. You are sensationalizing a little too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jared81 View Post
    I don't think he is saying that no school shootings will ever happened with armed guards at schools. He is just saying the collateral damage would be less. He was also pointing out the irony that all of the people that hate guns (Obama and that stupid newspaper) don't mind having armed guards around them. You are sensationalizing a little too.
    I don't think I am. I made a simple statement that despite having an armed police officer on campus, this shooting still happened. Mo was the one that said something about taking away secret service, which I'm still not sure I understand the relevance. I don't see how anyone can say Obama hates guns. All he has tried to do is make it more difficult to get them, not try to take them away. "Obama hates guns" is rhetoric. That newspaper I can agree with you on...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locke View Post
    I don't think I am. I made a simple statement that despite having an armed police officer on campus, this shooting still happened. Mo was the one that said something about taking away secret service, which I'm still not sure I understand the relevance. I don't see how anyone can say Obama hates guns. All he has tried to do is make it more difficult to get them, not try to take them away. "Obama hates guns" is rhetoric. That newspaper I can agree with you on...
    I am for some changes in the gun laws. But I would not outlaw 12 gauge shotguns. I would imagine you feel the same way? So your whole point of this thread is just rhetoric. I believe armed guards lessen the collateral damage of a potential attack. That is why people hire security personell with weapons. I don't believe Obama hates guns, I believe he acts like he is ok with the 2nd amendment, but deep down he thinks anyone who owns a gun is a stupid hick. Obama is a great actor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locke View Post
    You want me to get psychological? There is a reason guns are the weapon of choice for violent crimes, especially among young men. It's the least personal way to kill someone. You need to get close enough to someone to see the life leaving their face to kill them with other methods. That's a level of intimacy most people are unable, or unwilling, to do. So no, without a gun, it's a VERY safe assumption that this victim is not assaulted.

    I don't see what Obama or his family have to do with this, but the secret service has protected the first family for centuries. I don't see the relevance. They would have that armed detail with them wherever they go, whether that be school, church, the arcade, the park, or anywhere. You're sensationalizing. The fact is an armed police officer was unable to prevent this shooting. Since the Newport shooting, everyone's go to solution is having armed police officers on campus. Well here is a case study, and it didn't turn out the way the NRA says it would. So now what...?
    He chose his victim. You're assuming his cowardice would have prevented the murder if he had not had access to a firearm. But you can't say definitely. Maybe he hated the other kid so much he wanted to see maximum carnage. Theres always a what if or a but, however, the fact is one kid wanted to kill another.

    And I have no issue with SS protection for POTUS and his family, but isn't it convenient that the POTUS sends his kids to a school that already employed 11 armed guards BEFORE he sent his kids there.....so again, you're comparing one guard at a school, and i'm saying what happens when you multiply the armed guards? Want to bet the kid that shot the other kid in Cali might have rethought that strategy knowing there were more than one armed guard at the school? Whats and Buts.....

    Don't be so quick to dismiss the case study until you've studied all the facets
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoFinz View Post
    He chose his victim. You're assuming his cowardice would have prevented the murder if he had not had access to a firearm. But you can't say definitely. Maybe he hated the other kid so much he wanted to see maximum carnage. Theres always a what if or a but, however, the fact is one kid wanted to kill another.

    And I have no issue with SS protection for POTUS and his family, but isn't it convenient that the POTUS sends his kids to a school that already employed 11 armed guards BEFORE he sent his kids there.....so again, you're comparing one guard at a school, and i'm saying what happens when you multiply the armed guards? Want to bet the kid that shot the other kid in Cali might have rethought that strategy knowing there were more than one armed guard at the school? Whats and Buts.....

    Don't be so quick to dismiss the case study until you've studied all the facets
    I've got 4 years of undergrad and 4.5 years of graduate work experience in this field. I'm telling you, without a gun, most people don't have the testicular fortitude to kill someone. I can't say for sure with this kid, but the average person simply can't kill someone up close and personal. There is a world of difference between standing a dozen feet away and shooting someone and being forced to see/smell/hear the life leaving a human being. Soldiers are trained for years, and incrementally desensitized, in order to do it. Those who are able to do it without any issues are called psychopaths.

    So now one armed guard obviously isn't enough, but MORE than that would do the trick? How is this going to be paid for? And what happens when despite having 5 armed guards, a poor kid gets shot anyways. Do we up to 50? Then 100? Then what? Does each student get an armed escort all day? More guns isn't the answer. Controlling who has the existing ones is. That's always been the answer, and everyone knows it. Most people just don't want to change their way of life...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locke View Post
    I've got 4 years of undergrad and 4.5 years of graduate work experience in this field. I'm telling you, without a gun, most people don't have the testicular fortitude to kill someone. I can't say for sure with this kid, but the average person simply can't kill someone up close and personal. There is a world of difference between standing a dozen feet away and shooting someone and being forced to see/smell/hear the life leaving a human being. Soldiers are trained for years, and incrementally desensitized, in order to do it. Those who are able to do it without any issues are called psychopaths.

    So now one armed guard obviously isn't enough, but MORE than that would do the trick? How is this going to be paid for? And what happens when despite having 5 armed guards, a poor kid gets shot anyways. Do we up to 50? Then 100? Then what? Does each student get an armed escort all day? More guns isn't the answer. Controlling who has the existing ones is. That's always been the answer, and everyone knows it. Most people just don't want to change their way of life...
    I appreciate your knowledge of the matter, and i wholeheartedly agree with most of your conclusion. However, without case knowledge of this kid, you can't attempt to put him under such a blanket statement, no matter how mostly true it it.

    When i was in high school in the early 80's (STFU) there were several vehicles, including teachers, that had shotguns in racks in their vehicles from hunting excursions early in the morning in season. Not once was there a problem with a shotgun being used on campus. So, with such a proliferation of weapons easily accesable, why do you suppose not one gun related fatality ever happened? Was it entirely due to the mindset? We had fights, not as many as some schools i'd imagine, probably more than some others. Why was it never an issue that so many firearms were readily available?

    As far as armed guards, they obviously arent the only answer, but they are a damned good start. How about one for every 50 students? Or every 100? Or one for every exterior door? I'll ask again, how can armed guards be dismissed when the POTUS sends his kids to school that had armed guards aside from the SS detail? Obviously a few people thought that was a good deterrent.

    And aren't all the gun control arguments based on "If we can save one kids life it's worth it?". Start cutting the budget till you have enough, hire ex-military and law enforcement and put a prescence out there. It will be a lot simpler and cheaper and less divisive than telling a law abiding citizen you're going to infringe on their guaranteed right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locke View Post
    I've got 4 years of undergrad and 4.5 years of graduate work experience in this field. I'm telling you, without a gun, most people don't have the testicular fortitude to kill someone. I can't say for sure with this kid, but the average person simply can't kill someone up close and personal. There is a world of difference between standing a dozen feet away and shooting someone and being forced to see/smell/hear the life leaving a human being. Soldiers are trained for years, and incrementally desensitized, in order to do it. Those who are able to do it without any issues are called psychopaths.

    So now one armed guard obviously isn't enough, but MORE than that would do the trick? How is this going to be paid for? And what happens when despite having 5 armed guards, a poor kid gets shot anyways. Do we up to 50? Then 100? Then what? Does each student get an armed escort all day? More guns isn't the answer. Controlling who has the existing ones is. That's always been the answer, and everyone knows it. Most people just don't want to change their way of life...
    i dont know if you feel my point is stupid and are not responding to it, but ill try again. no one is trying to say having armed guards will stop the school shootings. we cant stop them, they are apart of our life now. i think having a trained, armed officer at the school will lessen the collatoral damage. maybe a couple of people will still get shot, it is much better than 30 or 40.
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