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Thread: News and notes from Barry Jackson

  1. -31
    TheWalrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by registeredguy View Post
    No owner in the NFL would be getting the Dolphins a new stadium right now, not after the Marlins fiasco. To buy the land and build a top notch stadium from the ground up would likely cost over a billion dollars. That's going to require major public financing and I don't see that happening.

    I think that major stadium renovations that address the two biggest problems with the current facility (distance from the action, intensity of noise) is the best we can hope for, and it sounds like that's what he wants to do.

    And believe me, I'd love to see the team get a new stadium more along the lines of the old Orange Bowl experience more than anyone. It's just not going to happen.
    If it had been his goal from day one we would have gotten that stadium instead of the Marlins. It's definitely tougher now, but that only amplifies the wrong headed, penny pinching thinking I'm talking about.

    This kind of band aid will do more harm than good, imo. It basically ensures we'll be in some version of that stadium for decades, rather than waiting it out a few years and taking another shot at a real solution.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southbeach 2 View Post
    In the FWIW dept, Odrick played 951 snaps last year. Old Man Wake had 936, and Starks had 826. Don't see the snap count as an issue on production.

    Pee WEE was #21 on PFF's 3-4 DE's in 2011. However, his grade was a negative 0.7, which made him the Dolphins third best DE. Srarks was #6 at +12.4, and Langford was #18 at +2.

    I am not giving up on Odrick, as he is young and missed a year due to injury. However, his play (regardless of where) is a concern because he is not beating the man in front of him.
    Thanks for the numbers, but I'm not sure why you'd think they support your cause. Odrick outweighs Wake by about 50 lbs. It's hardly fair to compare their snap counts. But he did play about seven snaps per game more than Starks, who's about the same size. That's a whole extra drive.

    If you want to argue that doesn't make a difference, go ahead. But you shouldn't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hooshoops View Post
    imo odrick is a natural 43 dt...and the best interior pass rusher on the team...there's no doubt all those snaps in space took away from his pass rush on the inside some this year...

    if starks returns and you kick odrick inside in a rota with starks and solia then a edge pass rushing force opposite wake is a big need imo...shelby is more a run defender set the edge and poa guy although i also see him as a bit undersized he can flush the qb as a pass rusher at times but he's woefully slow in space and can't close...not enough acceleration to ever provide much pass rush off the edge...

    vernon has acceleration and can close and pretty fluid hips he just has at this stage no rush arsenal and no real counter when his initial rush is nullified...still vernon can disengage and get off blocks in space fairly well i'd say...i think i still see more pass rush upside there...
    I agree with this post overall. But as I think about it part of the hope would be you'd get more out of Odrick from a pass rush standpoint in this kind of scenario. It's a move that would definitely help the pass rush... and without changing personnel. The need would be for a guy to stop the run on first and second down as a LDE. Between Shelby and Vernon (and some Odrick) I think we can make that fly. Sure it might hurt the run defense a bit but that's a good tradeoff to make with this defense right now, imo.
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  4. -34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southbeach 2 View Post
    What do we do without Starks, and Solia playing little more than half the time?
    not sure what you're asking me here but if starks walks i kick odrick inside in his place opposite solia and find a rotational dt with pass rush talents in the 2 deep with randall...or i consider bringing back mcd at a much cheaper price like half of what he made in 2012...if he balks i walk away

    and i use a high pick on a de with pass rush talents first and foremost...this team can get by in run d with a rotation of the guys i mentioned and rotating odrick on occasion with shelby and vernon vs the run but we need first and foremost up front another pass rusher...solia is a tough guy to have on the field in passing downs he just doesn't do enough pass rush wise find an edge rush talent with elite physical tools with that top pick if need be...

    the other thing about premium edge rush players is they rarely rarely sniff free agency in their primes and when they do they get massive money see mario williams and buffalo so if you want to get one a high pick in the draft is where you usually have to go...get a 3rd down pass rush specialist with premium tools as far as get off the ball and that can bend...you can work with high end physical tools...you can't do much with guys that tackles don't always have to account for...first step quickness and explosion translates to the next level...
    hoops scoops 2012 season ..."in 2014 ryan tannehill etches his name in stone amongst the games elite qbs"..."ryan tannehill and andrew luck will carry the afc for the next decade plus the way peyton manning and tom brady have this last decade plus"
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWarriorFins View Post
    Does this mean Odrick at RE next year too
    Although I want to sign starks, This is defineltey what I dont want ^.
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    Stephen Ross was never building a new stadium in Miami because they'd never finance it. The only bond that'd be viable would never get past taxpayers. You can tax hotels/restaurants all you want, but you're not hitting 1.1 billion that you need for a bad ass stadium.

    Also, for everyone parroting what the NFL wants you to about how stadiums create jobs, etc... stop. It's not true.

    http://www.fieldofschemes.com/2012/0...stadium-bonds/
    http://www.minnpost.com/community-vo...ssional-sports
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Gift received at 02-24-2014, 02:26 PM from hooshoopsTannehill 17Tannehill 17
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWalrus View Post
    Thanks for the numbers, but I'm not sure why you'd think they support your cause. Odrick outweighs Wake by about 50 lbs. It's hardly fair to compare their snap counts. But he did play about seven snaps per game more than Starks, who's about the same size. That's a whole extra drive.

    If you want to argue that doesn't make a difference, go ahead. But you shouldn't.
    I prefaced my post with "in the FWIW dept, meaning something to consider or not. No argument here, I just believe that Odrick's age negates the snap count as an excuse for lack of production, and his not beating the man in front of him much early or late in the game or on the outside and the inside. JMO, as you have given yours, which I respect but, do not agree with.
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    Tannehill 17
Gift received at 02-24-2014, 02:26 PM from hooshoopsTannehill 17Tannehill 17
    Quote Originally Posted by hooshoops View Post
    not sure what you're asking me here but if starks walks i kick odrick inside in his place opposite solia and find a rotational dt with pass rush talents in the 2 deep with randall...or i consider bringing back mcd at a much cheaper price like half of what he made in 2012...if he balks i walk away

    and i use a high pick on a de with pass rush talents first and foremost...this team can get by in run d with a rotation of the guys i mentioned and rotating odrick on occasion with shelby and vernon vs the run but we need first and foremost up front another pass rusher...solia is a tough guy to have on the field in passing downs he just doesn't do enough pass rush wise find an edge rush talent with elite physical tools with that top pick if need be...

    the other thing about premium edge rush players is they rarely rarely sniff free agency in their primes and when they do they get massive money see mario williams and buffalo so if you want to get one a high pick in the draft is where you usually have to go...get a 3rd down pass rush specialist with premium tools as far as get off the ball and that can bend...you can work with high end physical tools...you can't do much with guys that tackles don't always have to account for...first step quickness and explosion translates to the next level...
    For not knowing what I was asking, you answered very well.

    I was looking for opinions on options with or without Starks, and you did nail them. I would add that we will not be able to replace Starks in FA, and losing him will have a very negative effect in stopping the run and pass. JMO
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  9. -39
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWalrus View Post
    I don't agree. I don't have a PFF subscription but didn't they give Odrick a fairly low grade even for his interior pass rush snaps? I seem to remember reading that somewhere. That would certainly match up with what I saw all year, anyway. Odrick often looked totally spent rushing inside, which is understandable given he was playing a position he's not suited for athletically on run downs and trying to make up the difference with pure effort. That takes a toll on even a tremendously fit lineman such as Odrick. The result was we ended up getting like a 75 out of 100 result from a guy who should be giving you like 85 out of a 100.

    Starks is stronger, more experienced and a better athlete than Odrick, especially moving laterally (better/more flexible ankles). He also does a much better job getting in lanes and knocking down passes. Odrick is quicker off the snap and more adept and knifing between blocks. He's also got a higher motor. But he flails at times and ends up on the ground more than he should.

    I liked Odrick a lot, don't get me wrong. But Starks is the rarer beast. The only downside is that though he's "only" 29 he's been in the league nine years. What's that Indiana Jones quote? It's not the years, honey, it's the mileage? Starks has some serious NFL mileage on him. But... he's also been exceptionally durable for a defensive lineman. In four years here he's only missed one game.

    I can't think of a good reason to let him go. Not one. Nor Soliai. You move Odrick inside and you've got one of the most dynamic rotations in the league at one of the most important positions in the game. They need to figure out the LDE and nickel pass rusher position. Maybe the combination of Odrick and Starks being fresher can provide that extra pass rush. I think that's what they were counting on this year but there just wasn't enough of a rotation to keep guys fresh. Odrick in particular seemed to be playing every snap.
    I like both Odrick and Starks too - but the one thing that separates them for me is that Starks seems to come up with his sacks on 3rd downs, etc - he doesn't get many - but over his career with us he seems to have that "winner"ness that you can't teach. I remember being at a Jets-Fins game a few years ago (when Ginn went nuts) and Starks sacked buttfumble on a 4th down as the Jests were threatening to tie the game late. It's plays like that he seems to make a couple times a year that have me saying, "I love this guy".
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    Yikes!!! The available backup QB cast is downright attrocious!!! Didn't we draft Stanton? Man these guys all suck...

    The Dolphins told Moore they want to keep him but have never given him a firm offer. If the Dolphins lose Moore, their free agent backup quarterback options include Jason Campbell, Brady Quinn, Tarvaris Jackson, Drew Stanton, Rex Grossman, Matt Leinart, Charlie Batch, Brian Hoyer and Bruce Gradkowski. Third-stringer Pat Devlin, a favorite of Joe Philbin, also could compete for the No. 2 job if Moore bolts.
    Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/sport...#storylink=cpy
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