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Thread: Kiper has phins taking Cordarrelle Patterson in his first mock draft

  1. -31
    Digital's Avatar
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    Let's not try to define prospects using only 2 dimensions. Sure, straight line speed is a great thing, and a 40 time is a good indicator, but speed is really much more than that. Suddenness, burst, first step, explosion, acceleration, whatever you call it going from one speed (e.g. stopped or 2nd gear) and quickly kicking it up to a much faster speed is how many WR's create separation and get open deep. Someone without this burst but has a gradual build up to a top speed doesn't create much separation even if their top gear is faster. Sometimes it means they only get open deep very late in the play and can be covered by a safety over the top by that time. Patterson has tremendous burst, so even if his top speed clocks in around 4.45 instead of 4.40, he is still a dramatic deep threat.

    Similaraly, lateral quickness often has little connection to vertical top speed. Some WR's can stop on a dime, and move laterally completely avoiding the tackler ala Barry Sanders. Now Patterson doesn't have Barry Sanders level ankle-breaking lateral quickness, but combine his phenomenal burst with tremendous change of direction skills, loose fluid hips, excellent vision for lanes and blocking, and a real knowledge of how to set up his blocks and willingness to use his blocking means this kid is going to be special IMHO.

    I haven't seen that kind of ability in a Dolphin uniform very often. Maybe Reggie Bush has that kind of ability, but really I'm thinking about David Overstreet (RIP) and Mark Clayton type of OMFG type of dazzling, breath-taking open field style. It devestates defenses, scares safeties to death, demoralizes Defensive Coordinators, and embarasses LB's. This type of electrifying player would put butts in the seats for Ross, TD's in the stat column for Tannehill, open up running lanes for our OL, and be for our offense what Victor Cruz provides for the Giants.

    I've liked Patterson since he broke into the Tennessee lineup, but I thought we would be able to get him in round 2 because he was so raw. Clearly, if we want him, we'll have to use our first rounder, and I'm on board with taking him at #12. These pass rushers really almost all had disappointing seasons leaving me with a very boom-or-bust feel for any of them available at #12, so I'm hoping we grab Patterson.
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    i would be ok with the patterson pick. however i think he's the type of player who will have to develop for a year or two before he makes a significant impact at wr. he as all the ability in the world to be a great one but the finer aspects of him game need a lot of work like his hands and route running. if we want a player who has the potential to be elite then grab patterson. if we want a player who has the ability to come in and right away and play receiver at high level then we draft allen.
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    Oh my goodness Dobson is shooting up. I hadn't looked at him but I'm thinking boner city if we get Patterson and Dobson in the 2nd. Follow it up with a CB in the 2nd, Jordan Reed in the 3rd and you sign a good RT in free agency.
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  4. -34
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Tes View Post
    I love Carradine and was hoping he would be Miami's pick in round 2. Do you really think he's a possibility at 12? I figured his late November ACL tear dropped him a round. I has him as a top 15 player pre-injury
    I think the NFL is going to keep a very close eye on his ACL progress because prior to injuring the ACL he may have been on his way to being a top 10 pick. That's the truth. I see Jason Pierre-Paul comparisons being tossed around for different prospects all the time but Carridine is the one guy that reminds of Pierre-Paul.

    Think about it this way. RIGHT NOW Bjoern Werner is considered the best defensive end in the class, and possibly the best defensive player in the Draft. That may not hold until Draft day but that's where he's at right now. Keeping that in mind, an argument could be made that Carridine was even better, prior to getting hurt. Mind you I don't necessarily think so, I think Werner was better, but the argument could be made and it's a valid argument. If someone tried to say Brandon Jenkins is better, I don't think that's a valid argument. I don't think you could come even close to making that argument. But with Carridine, I can see it. I don't necessarily agree but I see the argument.

    Carridine didn't start the Murray State game because Brandon Jenkins played in the game, and he got hurt at the end of the Florida game so he didn't play against Georgia Tech or Northern Illinois. He had 11.0 sacks and 13.0 TFLs in the 12 games. But he also had an incredible 80 tackles during that span. Werner only had 42 tackles on the season in 14 games. Werner had 8.0 sacks excluding the Murray State and Savannah State games. Carridine had 10.0 sacks in that same stretch. Again I'm not saying Carridine was a better football player than Werner in 2012 but there's an argument to be made.

    And if that's the case, and Bjoern Werner is not only the #1 DE in this Draft but the #1 defensive player in this Draft...where does that put Carridine? It sure doesn't put him "top 50" or "top 75". It puts him closer to "top 15".

    Thing is obviously, the ACL is a risk. But HOW MUCH of a risk? To my knowledge the injury was pretty clean, just the ACL and not any of the other ligaments. James Andrews says that there's a 95% success rate with ACL surgeries nowadays. The main problem with the ACL is the possibility that he doesn't play in 2013. But considering you have reserve lists like the PUP and NFI, to where you can have a guy come back to you in Week 8 to 10 if you want, I think he would play by then, if not sooner.

    This is where you really balance long term versus short term. If you go with Cornellius Carridine then you're sacrificing short term benefit in exchange for quite possibly (not probably, but possibly) ending up with the best defensive player in the 2013 NFL Draft.

    In all likelihood Carridine wouldn't be a target at #12 overall but would potentially be a target in a trade down. But I don't think you can trade down too far. Willis McGahee tore the hell out of his knee and still went 1st round. I seriously doubt Carridine makes it to Miami's #42 overall pick.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ckparrothead View Post
    I think the NFL is going to keep a very close eye on his ACL progress because prior to injuring the ACL he may have been on his way to being a top 10 pick. That's the truth. I see Jason Pierre-Paul comparisons being tossed around for different prospects all the time but Carridine is the one guy that reminds of Pierre-Paul.

    Think about it this way. RIGHT NOW Bjoern Werner is considered the best defensive end in the class, and possibly the best defensive player in the Draft. That may not hold until Draft day but that's where he's at right now. Keeping that in mind, an argument could be made that Carridine was even better, prior to getting hurt. Mind you I don't necessarily think so, I think Werner was better, but the argument could be made and it's a valid argument. If someone tried to say Brandon Jenkins is better, I don't think that's a valid argument. I don't think you could come even close to making that argument. But with Carridine, I can see it. I don't necessarily agree but I see the argument.

    Carridine didn't start the Murray State game because Brandon Jenkins played in the game, and he got hurt at the end of the Florida game so he didn't play against Georgia Tech or Northern Illinois. He had 11.0 sacks and 13.0 TFLs in the 12 games. But he also had an incredible 80 tackles during that span. Werner only had 42 tackles on the season in 14 games. Werner had 8.0 sacks excluding the Murray State and Savannah State games. Carridine had 10.0 sacks in that same stretch. Again I'm not saying Carridine was a better football player than Werner in 2012 but there's an argument to be made.

    And if that's the case, and Bjoern Werner is not only the #1 DE in this Draft but the #1 defensive player in this Draft...where does that put Carridine? It sure doesn't put him "top 50" or "top 75". It puts him closer to "top 15".

    Thing is obviously, the ACL is a risk. But HOW MUCH of a risk? To my knowledge the injury was pretty clean, just the ACL and not any of the other ligaments. James Andrews says that there's a 95% success rate with ACL surgeries nowadays. The main problem with the ACL is the possibility that he doesn't play in 2013. But considering you have reserve lists like the PUP and NFI, to where you can have a guy come back to you in Week 8 to 10 if you want, I think he would play by then, if not sooner.

    This is where you really balance long term versus short term. If you go with Cornellius Carridine then you're sacrificing short term benefit in exchange for quite possibly (not probably, but possibly) ending up with the best defensive player in the 2013 NFL Draft.

    In all likelihood Carridine wouldn't be a target at #12 overall but would potentially be a target in a trade down. But I don't think you can trade down too far. Willis McGahee tore the hell out of his knee and still went 1st round. I seriously doubt Carridine makes it to Miami's #42 overall pick.
    I agree. I'm not questioning Carradine's talent at all. Talent wise, there's no doubt in my mind that he's worthy of consideration at #12. The reason I don't believe that he is is becuase of the injury and the possiblity that you won't get much of a return on your investmant the first year. I'm not sure that Jeff Ireland has that luxury
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Tes View Post
    I agree. I'm not questioning Carradine's talent at all. Talent wise, there's no doubt in my mind that he's worthy of consideration at #12. The reason I don't believe that he is is becuase of the injury and the possiblity that you won't get much of a return on your investmant the first year. I'm not sure that Jeff Ireland has that luxury
    Jeff Ireland won't do it for precisely that reason. But I never let what Jeff Ireland would or wouldn't do deter me from a player.
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    OPINION

    Quote Originally Posted by ckparrothead View Post
    Jeff Ireland won't do it for precisely that reason. But I never let what Jeff Ireland would or wouldn't do deter me from a player.
    that's a wise strategy, very wise haha
    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo View Post
    Been one of my biggest issues with him. Every single year, EVERY YEAR, he makes one completely boneheaded signing that makes you think he went on a massive coke bender the night before, slept in the office, woke up still high as **** and started making calls to anybody that would answer at 4 AM on a weekday; which is apparently **** players like Naanee, Colombo, Barbie Carpenter, etc.
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    Kiper has phins taking Cordarrelle Patterson in his first mock draft

    Quote Originally Posted by dolfan_101 View Post
    Allen has been getting dogged lately, I still feel he is the superior prospect for our situation on O
    The knock I here is that he can't separate. But I don't see that when I watch him. I see a big wr who uses his size well in his routes and has amazing agility for a player his size.

    I can't get over how much this guy reminds me of b marsh. And in my mind he's easily the #1 WR.

    But I'm in the minority because I still think Justin hunter is a better prospect than Patterson. I just don't see any physicality from Patterson. I wouldn't pick him before our 3rd pick.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Goat View Post
    Goodness gracious does that kid have vision. He kinda freaks me out with the way he runs, and he's very raw, but...wow.
    Indeed!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by justdev7 View Post
    The knock I here is that he can't separate. But I don't see that when I watch him. I see a big wr who uses his size well in his routes and has amazing agility for a player his size.

    I can't get over how much this guy reminds me of b marsh. And in my mind he's easily the #1 WR.

    But I'm in the minority because I still think Justin hunter is a better prospect than Patterson. I just don't see any physicality from Patterson. I wouldn't pick him before our 3rd pick.
    im pretty sure that one of allen strengths is his route running ability and his ability to separate....the reason why allen has been dogged is because people are worried about his knee and there are also people questioning his long speed.
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