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Thread: Perception Doesn't Equal Reality on Jeff Ireland

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcdrover View Post
    Easily taken...

    The patriots are arguably one of the top 3 teams in the NFL. They aren't going anywhere. The only way the Dolphins can make any ground on them is with stability at GM and head coach.
    So you cant refute that Ireland is a bottom tier general manager? Okay...

    Anyways, preserving mediocrity for the sake of stability is insanity. Stability only matters when your preserving success. The only way the Dolphins start beating the Patriots is to build a talented team. The way to do that? Have a talented and skilled general manager. It starts at the top.

    And before people start in, yes: some teams have done what the Texans have done and kept their regime intact despite limited success. In those extremely few cases its fairly obvious the team is talented and they need to take make a few adjustments. Yet how about the teams that keep their regimes intact a year longer than they should? It happens almost every offseason. This year it was the Chargers and the Bills. Last year it was the Dolphins and Tony Sparano. Eric Mangini's Browns. Wade Phillips Cowboys. Etc, etc, etc.
    "Ignorance is not an excuse" were the words Goodell used when describing why those involved in the Saints bounty scandal would not avoid punishment.
    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-...ons-unanswered

    #freespesh. Because HIPAA
    http://www.finheaven.com/showthread....e-Recap-Thread
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spesh View Post
    So you cant refute that Ireland is a bottom tier general manager? Okay...
    And you can't prove that he isn't a top tier General Manager. The point is that their isn't enough evidence of either stance just yet. The point is, the guy has been calling the shots for a coach and scheme he both supports and knows can be successful in this league for one year.

    Also, this argument that "everyone has a boss" makes no sense. Yes, I have a boss, and he makes decisions. I make decisions too. Sometimes I disagree with his decisions, but he's my boss. The only decisions I can get in trouble for are those that I am tasked with making. Ireland wasn't tasked with making any decisions for all the years Parcells was in the building. It's merely convenient for your argument to say anything else, but, it is not backed up by common sense and life experience.

    I should add, that your argument that a GM is tasked with simply getting talent doesn't add up either. So, under your theory, if a 3-4 defensive end is the top talent out there, then you should take him if you run a 4-3. Or, if the top talent is a 4-3 outside linebacker then you should take him even if you run a 3-4. Lets say your scheme calls for bigger possession wide recievers and the top player on the board is Tavion Austin, do you take him? I could go on and one, but the point is, it is well established that a GM has to acquire talent that fits within the scheme of the coach.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jason37 View Post
    He has picks because he is letting our best players go and he most certainly will be drafting players at WR and CB who will not be as good as the players he let go. In other words he is creating holes and filling them with junk players.
    He will have to use/waste even higher picks to find replacements for those holes that he created, and they still may not be as good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spesh View Post
    He wanted to trade for Orton. He made up the contract and made an agreement with Denver concerning draft pick compensation.

    Ross vetoed the trade because he didnt want to pay a back up quarterback $9 million.
    Pure conjecture, just like Ireland's job being in trouble this previous off-season. People like you read rumor and continue to spout it like it has merit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy685 View Post
    Pure conjecture, just like Ireland's job being in trouble this previous off-season. People like you read rumor and continue to spout it like it has merit.
    Exactly right.

    Plus, keep in mind that most of these "reports" come from our negative "beat writers" who spent all of their time pandering to the loudest among us.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcdrover View Post
    Easily taken...

    The patriots are arguably one of the top 3 teams in the NFL. They aren't going anywhere. The only way the Dolphins can make any ground on them is with stability at GM and head coach.
    The only way we are overtaking the Pat's is with better players. You could have had the best coach in history leading our team and they would not win anything signficant with this current group of players.

    Now if we can only figure out whom is in charge of bringing in talent.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy685 View Post
    Pure conjecture, just like Ireland's job being in trouble this previous off-season. People like you read rumor and continue to spout it like it has merit.
    When sources inside the league office and the Denver Broncos confirm the story, i tend to believe it. Of course, there are always those who believe everything is a conspiracy and we should assassinate the character of any messanger who says stuff we personally dont appreciate.

    I form my opinion on the information i have available. When Stephen Ross publically states he expects to make the playoffs, i take him at his word. If hes lying, thats on him.

    Just when the Dolphins were about to trade a fourth-round pick to the Broncos for quarterback Kyle Orton in August, Dolphins owner Stephen Ross declined to pay the three-year, $27 million extension that the quarterback and Miami already had agreed to, league sources said.
    http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=7031691&wjb

    Theres the evidence for the Orton trade. Show me how its wrong. Without using conjecture of your own of course.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcdrover View Post
    The patriots are arguably one of the top 3 teams in the NFL. They aren't going anywhere. The only way the Dolphins can make any ground on them is with stability at GM and head coach.
    The old continuity argument again. Do you really believe we would be challenging the Patriots in year 6 of a Cam Cameron regime?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghetti17 View Post
    And you can't prove that he isn't a top tier General Manager. The point is that their isn't enough evidence of either stance just yet. The point is, the guy has been calling the shots for a coach and scheme he both supports and knows can be successful in this league for one year.

    Also, this argument that "everyone has a boss" makes no sense. Yes, I have a boss, and he makes decisions. I make decisions too. Sometimes I disagree with his decisions, but he's my boss. The only decisions I can get in trouble for are those that I am tasked with making. Ireland wasn't tasked with making any decisions for all the years Parcells was in the building. It's merely convenient for your argument to say anything else, but, it is not backed up by common sense and life experience.

    I should add, that your argument that a GM is tasked with simply getting talent doesn't add up either. So, under your theory, if a 3-4 defensive end is the top talent out there, then you should take him if you run a 4-3. Or, if the top talent is a 4-3 outside linebacker then you should take him even if you run a 3-4. Lets say your scheme calls for bigger possession wide recievers and the top player on the board is Tavion Austin, do you take him? I could go on and one, but the point is, it is well established that a GM has to acquire talent that fits within the scheme of the coach.
    1) 4 losing seasons is evidence.

    2) So according to you, Ireland did nothing at all. But still collected paychecks. He stood by and did nothing while this team burned to the ground. Why shouldnt he be fired again? By the way, can you do me a favor and get me a job where you work? You know, the place where you get to collect paychecks and are under no threat of being fired ever? Id be completely down for that job. Especially if its like Irelands, where i dont have any job responsibilities at all. Totally down for that.

    3) Yup. I believe our general manager should draft talented players. Schemes change all the time. Good teams adjust their playbook to the talent the have available. Bad teams tear apart their roster to fit a particular scheme. Von Miller fit a 3-4 scheme, yet Denver drafted him and adjusted their playbook so he could still rush the passer despite his label of "linebacker" in a 4-3. Worked out well so far.
    There are coaching changes every year. Coaches life span usually is 2 years. If there isnt improvement by year 2, they usually dont get a third. If they get a third, they usually have to throw coordinators under the bus to save their own job. The playbook changes no matter which of those occurs. Are you suggested the correct way to build a team is to rebuild the roster every other season? How about we just drafted players talented enough to play in multiple schemes?

    The point is youve made alot of claims but have provided no evidence. Your "reality" is built on fantasy. The minute someone provides evidence that Jeff Ireland didnt collect a paycheck and had no job responsibilities while working under Parcells, ill change my opinion. Until then, ill hold the grown adult who has made millions of dollars accountable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghetti17 View Post
    It also relates to the years in which Ireland had to acquire talent for a coach and a scheme he didn't agree with.
    He was the GM. He worked with "The Meatball" Sparano in Dallas. If he did not want him as GM, he should have not allowed it. Instead he sat there and kissed Parcells' ass and said,"anything for you, exulted One".
    "It happens all the time," Taylor said. "It's not an exact science and personnel guys aren't the end-all, be-all. " Jason Taylor,2011
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