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Thread: Perception Doesn't Equal Reality on Jeff Ireland

  1. -31
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    I agree with most of what you posted. I beleive Ireland is on an upswing and is improving. We have had many worse GM's through here up to Ireland tenure and many worse coaches since Shula when he was run out of Miami by some of the fans and media back then just like we are seeing with Ireland now. We also live in a generattion of instant gratification with little long term vision which also contributes to this fan and media outrage. My opinion does not mean I am against upgrading any position including the GM. I would like to add when they invented free agency years ago it took away from some of the real development of players and coaching aspects. Too bad IMO it was fun seeing the fringe players develop like Jim Jensen into stars for your home team.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJack View Post
    The only way we are overtaking the Pat's is with better players. You could have had the best coach in history leading our team and they would not win anything signficant with this current group of players.

    Now if we can only figure out whom is in charge of bringing in talent.....
    You are absolutly wrong and Shula proved that all the time. Yes we need more talented players too I agree but Tom Brady was a find and the last time we beat the Pats for the division title Brady was on the bench. So one player at the right position can make all the difference and its not just the Phins that the Pats have been pounding. Of course when we had a better coach and better QB in Marinio and sometimes a very average talented team we still owned the AFC.
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  3. -33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spesh View Post
    1) 4 losing seasons is evidence.

    2) So according to you, Ireland did nothing at all. But still collected paychecks. He stood by and did nothing while this team burned to the ground. Why shouldnt he be fired again? By the way, can you do me a favor and get me a job where you work? You know, the place where you get to collect paychecks and are under no threat of being fired ever? Id be completely down for that job. Especially if its like Irelands, where i dont have any job responsibilities at all. Totally down for that.

    3) Yup. I believe our general manager should draft talented players. Schemes change all the time. Good teams adjust their playbook to the talent the have available. Bad teams tear apart their roster to fit a particular scheme. Von Miller fit a 3-4 scheme, yet Denver drafted him and adjusted their playbook so he could still rush the passer despite his label of "linebacker" in a 4-3. Worked out well so far.
    There are coaching changes every year. Coaches life span usually is 2 years. If there isnt improvement by year 2, they usually dont get a third. If they get a third, they usually have to throw coordinators under the bus to save their own job. The playbook changes no matter which of those occurs. Are you suggested the correct way to build a team is to rebuild the roster every other season? How about we just drafted players talented enough to play in multiple schemes?

    The point is youve made alot of claims but have provided no evidence. Your "reality" is built on fantasy. The minute someone provides evidence that Jeff Ireland didnt collect a paycheck and had no job responsibilities while working under Parcells, ill change my opinion. Until then, ill hold the grown adult who has made millions of dollars accountable.
    1. My point is he is not responsible for four years of losing seasons. He is responsible for 1.

    2. He did more than collect paychecks. He did the grunt work of compiling information on players using the protocals and evaluation theories set out by his boss...Bill Parcells. Numerous NFL teams run their player acquisition process this way. Not sure where you got the impression I can't be fired at my job. I said I can get in trouble for the decisions I'm tasked with making, not the decisions my boss is tasked with making. That is the difference. I am judges by how I do my job, not how my boss does his. He has his own boss, like Parcells had with the owner. Parcells was Ireland's boss, so he did what he asked.

    3. Some players are, as you put it, "talented enough to play in multiple schemes". No doubt about it. Von Miller is one of those people. Problem is, that's about 10-15 players per draft. Beyond that, a GM is tasked with finding the flawed talent that is most likely to succeed within the system and scheme they run as an organization. If a GM cannot do this with regards to these "flawed" players, he won't be successfull.

    4. There is no fantasy in play here. He had responsibilities...they just didn't include final say on who they drafted or signed. He compiled information in the manner requested by his boss.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DKphin View Post
    He was the GM. He worked with "The Meatball" Sparano in Dallas. If he did not want him as GM, he should have not allowed it. Instead he sat there and kissed Parcells' ass and said,"anything for you, exulted One".
    I think the problem is that you are confusing "GM" with "final say". See, you can be the "GM" without having "final say". That is the dynamic that was in place when Ireland was the GM under Parcells. He collected information using Parcell's evaluation criteria. That was his job. Also, it's hard for me to understand why people don't get that you have to execute the decisions made by your boss. That's how the world works.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghetti17 View Post
    1. My point is he is not responsible for four years of losing seasons. He is responsible for 1.2. He did more than collect paychecks. He did the grunt work of compiling information on players using the protocals and evaluation theories set out by his boss...Bill Parcells. Numerous NFL teams run their player acquisition process this way. Not sure where you got the impression I can't be fired at my job. I said I can get in trouble for the decisions I'm tasked with making, not the decisions my boss is tasked with making. That is the difference. I am judges by how I do my job, not how my boss does his. He has his own boss, like Parcells had with the owner. Parcells was Ireland's boss, so he did what he asked.3. Some players are, as you put it, "talented enough to play in multiple schemes". No doubt about it. Von Miller is one of those people. Problem is, that's about 10-15 players per draft. Beyond that, a GM is tasked with finding the flawed talent that is most likely to succeed within the system and scheme they run as an organization. If a GM cannot do this with regards to these "flawed" players, he won't be successfull. 4. There is no fantasy in play here. He had responsibilities...they just didn't include final say on who they drafted or signed. He compiled information in the manner requested by his boss.
    It's good to know that my boss is responsible for my being a lazy ass.

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    I agree with the OP. Ireland should be judged by his time with Joe Philbin; not for his time under Parcells or Sparano.
    He's not drafting players for Sparano's system anymore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zounds View Post
    Yep, you will get hammered, but you will also likely have the last laugh when you bump this thread in 2 years and we are a playoff team.
    We were a playoff team in 2008, I guess that means you can die a happy man now? You think Bengals fans are happy with being a playoff team?
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    Ireland is the best GM-who's-team-hasnt-had-a-winning-record-in-5-years EVER!!!

    Only on this forum does this failure have excuse after excuse made for him.
    "Ryan Tannehill out-Brady'ed Brady"- DanPatrick
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  9. -39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghetti17 View Post
    1. My point is he is not responsible for four years of losing seasons. He is responsible for 1.

    2. He did more than collect paychecks. He did the grunt work of compiling information on players using the protocals and evaluation theories set out by his boss...Bill Parcells. Numerous NFL teams run their player acquisition process this way. Not sure where you got the impression I can't be fired at my job. I said I can get in trouble for the decisions I'm tasked with making, not the decisions my boss is tasked with making. That is the difference. I am judges by how I do my job, not how my boss does his. He has his own boss, like Parcells had with the owner. Parcells was Ireland's boss, so he did what he asked.

    3. Some players are, as you put it, "talented enough to play in multiple schemes". No doubt about it. Von Miller is one of those people. Problem is, that's about 10-15 players per draft. Beyond that, a GM is tasked with finding the flawed talent that is most likely to succeed within the system and scheme they run as an organization. If a GM cannot do this with regards to these "flawed" players, he won't be successfull.

    4. There is no fantasy in play here. He had responsibilities...they just didn't include final say on who they drafted or signed. He compiled information in the manner requested by his boss.
    1) Proof? Evidence?

    2) So now no one should be fired if they dont have final say. Man, alot of assistant coaches/front office personnel have been wrongfully terminated. NFL is going to be flooded with lawsuits, right?

    3) Had Von Miller played for a strict coaching staff, he wouldnt be rushing the passer as a linebacker. Good thing he is playing for a coaching staff that understands the talent they have available. Its common occurance for teams to adjust their scheme. Coaches are fighting for their own jobs(unless they dont have final say, then they can do whatever they want apparently) and know the best way to win is to put their players in the best position they can. Some players do respond better in certain schemes, especially quarterbacks. But good general managers and coaches acquire players because of their strengths/talent and adjust accordingly. Scheme is the most overrated excuse on this forum. Acquire good players(and there are significantly more then 10 per draft), period.

    4) Oh, so now Ireland did have some role in our losing seasons. So the information Ireland compiled lead to losing seasons. And when he took over(like 3 days ago according to some) it also lead to a losing season. Again, what has Jeff Ireland done to secure your loyalty? What have you seen in this person to suggest he will build a winning roster? Did it inspire you with confidence when he failed to address the hole he created at wideout? How about at corner? The Cam Wake and Ryan Tannehill holdouts? Other than having the title "Miami Dolphins General Manager" how has he earned your trust?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghetti17 View Post
    I think the problem is that you are confusing "GM" with "final say". See, you can be the "GM" without having "final say". That is the dynamic that was in place when Ireland was the GM under Parcells. He collected information using Parcell's evaluation criteria. That was his job. Also, it's hard for me to understand why people don't get that you have to execute the decisions made by your boss. That's how the world works.
    So what you are saying he was just a puppet Parcells used so he could deflect criticism as he slowly ruined the team. That makes him even more of a lackey than was previously stated. By the way, player transactions and hiring the coaches are the GM's job.
    In the National Football League, the general manager or GM of a team typically controls player transactions and bears the primary responsibility on behalf of the team during contract discussions with players.

    The general manager is also normally the person who hires and fires the coaching staff, including the head coach.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General...an_football%29
    "It happens all the time," Taylor said. "It's not an exact science and personnel guys aren't the end-all, be-all. " Jason Taylor,2011
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