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Thread: WR and TE who is the best solution IYO and Why ?

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    I would like to see them sign either Wallace or Jennings and trade down in the first round and take either Ertz or Eifert. Also they should resign Hartline and Fasano and draft a WR in the second round IMO.
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    Rebel AllianceSuperman logoXbox LogoPlaystation LogoSnakes!
    Quote Originally Posted by JRYCRL View Post
    Ireland is too clueless to trade back. I'd trade back again and again to get as many rond 2-4 picks as I could.
    yep. he definitely needs to play more madden and consult you to figure out how to work the trade backs.

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    FH

    OP, nice post. I agree with your concept and even thought process--it seems like the right path. But, we disagree on players for the most part.

    Jennings makes the most sense to me too for all the reasons you mentioned, plus his mentoring and being the clear alpha and role model for our younger WR's. I see this off season as the year we build pur WR corps.

    At WR, Philbin clearly wants a big target with speed. Just look at all the time wasted hoping Roberto Wallace and Marlon Moore would develop. They also want WR's that block well, which was Legadu Naanee's only real strength. The best big, fast, blocking WR's are IMHO Justin Hunter and Cordarrelle Patterson. I think one of those two will be our first WR drafted, and both will benefit greatly from Jennings mentoring.

    I expect a 2nd WR to be drafted in round 2-4, but I think that will be more of a value pick.

    Unfortunately, the TE position may not really be fixed this year, although I hope I'm wrong. We currently have zero size mismatches in the red zone, and Reed doesn't help with that. IMHO the only draftable TE's that provide both a seam threat and a red zone mismatch are Eifert and Ertz, who may both be taken between our 1 and 2a picks.

    The FA TE's are all overpriced and drop a lot of passes. I'd definitely pass on big money dropsies like Cook, Keller and Bennett. I'd resign Fasano and concentrate on the WR overhaul unless Eifert or Ertz falls to is or Ireland can wheel and deal into the late first/early second.
    Last edited by Digital; 01-19-2013 at 09:39 PM.
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    None of the FA TE's sound like great options to me - they are decent players but not guys worth paying big money to c'mon down for... As for WR, I like Wallace (speed/deep threat) then Bowe for his RZ abiliites. Isn't Jennings getting up there in age?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital View Post
    OP, nice post. I agree with your concept and even thought process--it seems like the right path. But, we disagree on players for the most part.

    Jennings makes the most sense to me too for all the reasons you mentioned, plus his mentoring and being the clear alpha and role model for pur younger WR's. I see this off season as the year we build pur WR corps.

    At WR, Phil in clearly wants a big target with speed. Just look at all the time wasted hoping Roberto Wallace and Marlon Moore would develop. They also want WR's that block well, which was Legacy Naanee's only real strength. The best big, fast, blocking WR's are IMHO Justin Hunter and Cordarrelle Patterson. I think one of those two will be pur first WR drafted, and both will benefit greatly from Jennings mentoring.

    I expect a 2nd WR to be drafted in round 2-4, but I think that will be more of a value pick.

    Unfortunately, the TE position may not really be fixed this year, although I hope I'm wrong. We currently have zero size mismatches in the red zone, and Reed doesn't help with that. IMHO the only draftable TE's that provide both a seam threat and a red zone mismatch are Eifert and Hertz, who may both be taken between our 1 and 2a picks.

    The FA TE's are all overpriced and drop a lot of passes. I'd definitely pass on big money dropsies like Cook, Keller and Bennett. I'd resign Fasano and concentrate on the WR overhaul unless Eifert or Hertz falls to is or Ireland can wheel and deal into the late first/early second.
    First of all, forget this "mentoring" crap. They say that those who can't do teach. JENNINGS better spend his time "do"ing. What are we paying the WRs Coach for? Yanking his chain on Sunday? Let HIM do the teaching, and fire him if he can't get it done.

    Second, some can't seem to learn from what they observe . Last season we did worse and worse offensively. WHY? Because opponents figured out that we had zippo for truly threatening deep speed. HARTLINE was "sneaky fast" but that's about as good as it got. Once teams figured that much out, they crowded the l/o/s bigtime, because MIAMI couldn't punish them for it. Bye-bye running game, and bye-bye short passing attack: it's amazing that MIAMI and TANNEHILL did as well as they did! The solution is simple: get a true "burner" or two. That means WALLACE, and because our "cap" position is so good, I'd go after BOTH he and JENNINGS in F/A. And after a pass-rusher in the 1st Round, I'd look to move up for a PATTERSON or any other combination big/fast WR...or simply just another "burner" regardless of height/weight.

    And forget all this TE drivel. Any TE, whether F/A or Draftee, won't cure the problem of opponents crowding the l/o/s as things stand. But a true "burner" WR, playing opposite a "sneaky fast" HARTLINE, would. That in turn sets up everybody else: BESS, whoever we play at TE, and the rushing attack. I/m/o, JENNINGS would be the icing on the cake: but WALLACE is the cake itself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by luduporcu View Post
    First of all, forget this "mentoring" crap. They say that those who can't do teach. JENNINGS better spend his time "do"ing. What are we paying the WRs Coach for? Yanking his chain on Sunday? Let HIM do the teaching, and fire him if he can't get it done.

    Second, some can't seem to learn from what they observe . Last season we did worse and worse offensively. WHY? Because opponents figured out that we had zippo for truly threatening deep speed. HARTLINE was "sneaky fast" but that's about as good as it got. Once teams figured that much out, they crowded the l/o/s bigtime, because MIAMI couldn't punish them for it. Bye-bye running game, and bye-bye short passing attack: it's amazing that MIAMI and TANNEHILL did as well as they did! The solution is simple: get a true "burner" or two. That means WALLACE, and because our "cap" position is so good, I'd go after BOTH he and JENNINGS in F/A. And after a pass-rusher in the 1st Round, I'd look to move up for a PATTERSON or any other combination big/fast WR...or simply just another "burner" regardless of height/weight.

    And forget all this TE drivel. Any TE, whether F/A or Draftee, won't cure the problem of opponents crowding the l/o/s as things stand. But a true "burner" WR, playing opposite a "sneaky fast" HARTLINE, would. That in turn sets up everybody else: BESS, whoever we play at TE, and the rushing attack. I/m/o, JENNINGS would be the icing on the cake: but WALLACE is the cake itself.
    My you are negative.

    Since you quoted my analysis with poorly analyzed vitrol, I'll address your analysis in kind.

    First, learn to read. The OP and I both evaluated Jennings as the best WR. He's the best WR available by far because he catches the ball. He is also the quickest WR and is extremely adept at getting open because of it. No, he isn't as fast as Wallace or as big and physically imposing as Bowe, but both drop a LOT of balls, Wallace is a one-trick-pony deep threat and Bowe tends to rack up stats in garbage time after screwing up dropping balls or causing INT's during the meningful parts of the game.

    Second, apparently you either cannot or have not observed the WR's I suggested or even read why they were suggested. SPEED was specifically required when I said "best big, fast, blocking WR's" ... and in case it wasn't clear enough, "fast" means speed ... as in deep threat. If you don't think Patterson or Hunter are deep threats, I'm confident you'll realize that they are by the end of their rookie seasons ... these guys are very fast. Is Wallace faster? Yes, but all three are very legitimate deep threats.

    As for your "drivel" blatherings, again, read the post, the speed element that is currently MISSING, was addressed before we even got to the TE portion. What we need from a TE are 2 things, being a seam threat and a red zone mismatch. There are 3 main ways to score through the air ... long passes from speed WR's like Wallace, Patterson or Hunter, RAC plays where Patterson is clearly the best but both Wallace and Hunter excel as well, size mismatches in the red zone, where Patterson and Hunter excel but Wallace does not.
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    For the last time, Wallace isn't a one trick pony. Stop repeating things without understand what you're saying.

    And in a draft that is VERY heavy with premiere pass rushing DEs, exactly what we need the most (minus WR etc etc) you want to trade back? Rather than snag one of the DEs who fall out of the top 10? Are you nuts?

    We have the ammo to trade up if necessary, that's fine. As long as you walk away with 3 high project/high quality players in the 1st 3 rounds, I don't freakin care. Give me Jordan Reed in the 3rd. He's going to be a tremendous receiving TE, in the mold of Finley. I see a lot of Hernandez in him , solely because of their release at the line of scrimmage and the way they move after the catch.

    Personally I'd love if we re-signed Hartline, signed Wallace, drafted Mingo in the 1st, then go straight BPA with TE/CB/OL in mind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy685 View Post
    For the last time, Wallace isn't a one trick pony. Stop repeating things without understand what you're saying.
    His trick is SPEED. What are you saying he possessses that I don't "understand" ... his tremendous physical prowess? His unbelievable hands? His legendary route running? He's a speed receiver ... his one trick is speed. Are we in disagreement about that? What is his trick that is NOT speed?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital View Post
    His trick is SPEED. What are you saying he possessses that I don't "understand" ... his tremendous physical prowess? His unbelievable hands? His legendary route running? He's a speed receiver ... his one trick is speed. Are we in disagreement about that? What is his trick that is NOT speed?
    He's a great route runner. He does much more than get open deep. He has more catches that are short and intermediate than deep. He's a fantastic receiver overall. I'm trying to be nice, but simply put, you don't know what you're even looking at if you are telling me Wallace isn't a good route runner. So hell, let's do it. You can google this but it'll be an endeavor -

    Tell me why Jennings is a better "route runner" in your eyes, specifically referencing their breaks and hip movement. I'll wait.

    If you look at the breakdown of 2011 Wallace vs 2011 Jennings (this is favorable towards Jennings as well, because of healthy and injuries) then you will see that Wallace was more productive on intermediate routes than Jennings was. Hum. Let's see. I know! You'll say "Green Bay has so many receivers! Clearly that's why" But you remember Antonio Brown and Heath Miller are in Pitt, eating away at those catches.

    Then you'll tell me that Wallace drops the ball too much. ALL THOSE DROPS. Did you notice that he has a better catch rate than over 75% of the other AFC:N receivers? Are you noticing the YAC discrepancy between the two?

    Stop saying he's all speed. If speed was all he had, then he'd be Clyde Gates, and he'd be bouncing around the bottom of rosters on the league. He has tremendous separation ability, and he sells routes incredibly well because teams have to respect him deep. If they guess wrong ONCE it is 6 points.
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    Wallace first choice, then jennings then Bowe
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