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Thread: WR and TE who is the best solution IYO and Why ?

  1. -21
    CANDolphan's Avatar
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    Simply put, if you're drafting Jennings, you better draft a WR in the 1st or 2nd. You're gonna need the replacement in 2-3 years.

    Wallace will be on your team in his physical prime for a minimum of 4-5 years (barring injury). That's impressive.
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  2. -22
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    Whyd you take away that awesome graph and videos?
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  3. -23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy685 View Post
    He's a great route runner. He does much more than get open deep. He has more catches that are short and intermediate than deep. He's a fantastic receiver overall. I'm trying to be nice, but simply put, you don't know what you're even looking at if you are telling me Wallace isn't a good route runner. So hell, let's do it. You can google this but it'll be an endeavor -

    Tell me why Jennings is a better "route runner" in your eyes, specifically referencing their breaks and hip movement. I'll wait.
    Wallace's speed creates a cushion, therefore he already has some separation as his threat of deep threat creates it. Yes, he makes shorter receptions, but he doesn't have the quickness or hands that Jennings does, and he isn't as precise in his route running. Wallace drops significantly more balls than Jennings does. I'm beyond surprised that you can't see this.

    As for their breaks, I'm not going to go play by play with every Jennings target this year or over his career, but watching him you'll notice that he is almost always in the right place and on the same page as Rodgers. Wallace sometimes runs his routes shorter or deeper when he crosses the middle and doesn't always appear to be on the same page as his QB. It's probably less noticable when Roethlisberger is healthy, but you see that his routs are less crisp and more approximated depth wise.

    Regarding their hips, both are good, but watching Jennings you see a guy who has tremendous explosion out of his cuts. He creates separation extremely well, and that's one of the reasons he's such a great WR. Wallace certainly has explosion too, but I see far greater vertical explosion than lateral explosion from him. Wallace has tremendous accelleration and an extremely fast top speed. He eats cushions vertically at the blink of an eye, but he doesn't translate that same explosion laterally. Jennings doesn't have that extremely fasat top speed, nor is he as exposive vertically, but his explosion laterally is fantastic. Many of Jennings' routes are about creating separation by cutting into the middle where Rodgers anticipates the great lateral cut and instant separation, and Jennings catches the ball on the run. By contrast, many of his outside targets are ones where he cannot clearly separate vertically, so Rodgers throws him a back shoulder catch, which jennings great hips allow him to stop momentum, create separation towards the back shoulder throw and make the catch. He is so good at it, he can even spring back and elevate taking a CB who thinks he has Jennings blanketed and create great separation where the CB cannot even touch Jennings' arms.

    Is that enough for ya? Or do I need to start linking you tube videos to illustrate it?
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  4. -24
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    Watch these 3 videos and you have 3 guys that would all help our team.

    #1 Mike Wallace Height
    : 6-0 Weight: 199 Age: 26
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSOlJCoZmTI
    -Mike Wallace Highlights, watch as he burns Miami db's like 6 times in this video. Mike Wallace is the guy that I would add if we only could get one new guy for sure. He is the burner and he is young. (I not a fan of the music in the video.) The reason I like Mike for the dolphins is his abilty to score TD's and get behind DB's.

    RECEIVING
    Year Team G Rec Yds Avg Yds/G Lng TD 20+ 40+ 1st FUM
    2012 Pittsburgh Steelers 15 64 836 13.1 55.7 82T 8 9 4 33 2
    2011 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 72 1,193 16.6 74.6 95T 8 18 7 54 1
    2010 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 60 1,257 21.0 78.6 56T 10 26 10 48 1
    2009 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 39 756 19.4 47.2 60T 6 14 6 28 1
    TOTAL 63 235 4,042 17.2 64.2 95 32 67 27 163 5

    #2 Greg Jennings Height: 5-11 Weight: 198 Age: 29
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyLHvJ0h4l4
    - Greg Jennings highlights, dude can catch anything. You don't see him burning as many db's as Wallace but he catches balls that are anywhere near him. I would love him on the team but with him it would be imperitve that we also use our 1st round pick on another younger WR for him to groom. I love that this guy catches the ball even when its nowhere near him.

    RECEIVING
    Year Team G Rec Yds Avg Yds/G Lng TD 20+ 40+ 1st FUM
    2012 Green Bay Packers 8 36 366 10.2 45.8 45 4 3 1 22 0
    2011 Green Bay Packers 13 67 949 14.2 73.0 79T 9 13 3 43 0
    2010 Green Bay Packers 16 76 1,265 16.6 79.1 86T 12 21 6 52 2
    2009 Green Bay Packers 16 68 1,113 16.4 69.6 83T 4 16 6 48 0
    2008 Green Bay Packers 16 80 1,292 16.2 80.8 63 9 21 8 55 1
    2007 Green Bay Packers 13 53 920 17.4 70.8 82T 12 13 7 37 1
    2006 Green Bay Packers 14 45 632 14.0 45.1 75T 3 10 2 30 1
    TOTAL 96 425 6,537 15.4 68.1 86 53 97 33 287 5

    #3 Dwayne Bowe - Height: 6-2 Weight: 221 Age: 28
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uF-eFl2FiQQ -Dwayne Bowe Hi-lights. Bowe is the most like Brandon marshal in my opinion, big guy who refuses to go down. He would also be a huge upgrade as well. Sorry again for the screamy music.


    RECEIVING
    Year Team G Rec Yds Avg Yds/G Lng TD 20+ 40+ 1st FUM
    2012 Kansas City Chiefs 13 59 801 13.6 61.6 47 3 11 2 43 1
    2011 Kansas City Chiefs 16 81 1,159 14.3 72.4 52T 5 19 3 57 1
    2010 Kansas City Chiefs 16 72 1,162 16.1 72.6 75T 15 19 4 55 1
    2009 Kansas City Chiefs 11 47 589 12.5 53.5 41 4 8 1 31 1
    2008 Kansas City Chiefs 16 86 1,022 11.9 63.9 36 7 12 0 49 0
    2007 Kansas City Chiefs 16 70 995 14.2 62.2 58 5 13 2 51 0
    TOTAL 88 415 5,728 13.8 65.1 75 39 82 12 286 4

    I want Mike Wallace as a Dolphin., followed by Jennings, followed very closely by Bowe. I would not be mad if we get any one of these guys and use some early picks on WR. every one of them is an upgrade from what we have now. If we could get Jennings and Wallace I would be ecstatic but that is not going to happen.
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  5. -25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy685 View Post
    Whyd you take away that awesome graph and videos?
    was spell checkin..
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  6. -26
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    Uh, you referenced what I was saying, but you either flip flopped what you were talking about or you genuinely don't know what I mean by breaks and what it does for a receiver.
    Things like this
    which jennings great hips allow him to stop momentum, create separation towards the back shoulder throw and make the catch.
    Are what I'm talking about. Huh? And What do you mean by "quickness of hands"? His hand eye coordination?

    I mean this with respect but it sounds like you're just throwing words together. That was by no means an analysis. So, yeah, I'd like you to post up some videos and illustrate what you're trying to say. For example, when I watch Wallace, he's very qick with his foot movement, no matter what is going on. He has incredibly fluid hips, so it's difficult to get a read on his comebacks or if he's kicking it up and running a GO. You can't afford to make a mistake. You aren't closing that gap, period. He even wins contested balls (watch the video posted of Wallace, it's great)

    Jennings is a great all around receiver. However, he's got injury concerns. He isn't a deep threat. He no longer has that home run capability. He isn't a physically imposing WR. He's a jack of all trades, and he does them all very very well. But right now, Wallace is the better receiver overall. There ARE character concerns with Wallace, however, as well as financial concerns. Would I be mad if we brought in Jennings? Not at all. I'd just prefer, in a vacuum, to get Wallace. He brings instant credibility to this entire WR corps. Bess can work the slot, Hartline will run circles around single coverage, especially with his intermediate routes and his deep outs. Don't sleep on Matthews, if he progresses next season, I'll start making certain comparisons that I'm not comfortable making right now. He's not a burner, but he's shifty as hell and deceivingly quick with his feet. He's got joystick capability. He could easily be our Cobb (since we keep referencing Packers lately)

    As far as tight ends go, you consider cleaning house. Bring in Bennett, let Fasano walk, cut Clay, and draft Jordan Reed in the 3rd. If you get Reed, cut Clay. If not, keep Clay and hope he'll progress next year like you had hoped he would last year. Leave Jared Cook to Tennessee with that franchise tag.

    Same people who are saying Wallace drops the ball alot are saying go for Finley? I laugh at that.
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  7. -27
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    Mike Wallace would be an excellent addition. I' ve always said that. But I'm not excited about paying rediculous money and outbidding the rest of the league for him. If by some twist of fate he wants to come to Miami for less than what other teams are paying, I'd love to have him. But Jennings IS older, and he already has a relationship with Philbin and already fits our offense. I definitely don't see us having to pay him the same amount of money we'd have to pay Wallace. I'm interested in grabbing Levitre and/or Vollmer too, and who knows, we might be able to fit Jennings and Levitre under the cap, but we're not going to fit Wallace and Levitre I don't think.
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  8. -28
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    I 100% support your suggest of Sebastian V. He'd anchor that RT side.
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  9. -29
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    I never said "quickness of hands" ... and that's not in the bit of my post you quoted so I can only assume you meant when I was talking about how Jennings makes quick stop momentum and cuts back towards the ball on back shoulder throws. What I said was:

    "he can even spring back and elevate taking a CB who thinks he has Jennings blanketed and create great separation where the CB cannot even touch Jennings' arms."

    What I mean by that is that Jennings creates so much separaation on some of those back shoulder throws that he goes from appearing to be blanketed by the CB to being very separated from the CB to such a point that the CB cannot grab Jennings' arms and break up the catch. Sorry if that wasn't clear enough, but hopefully it is now.

    Yes, Jennings has injury concerns ...I've posted extensively about it in many other threads and that's a legitimate concern. Agreed. I also have stated multiple times that while Jennings can get deep, he isn't a true deep threat, and certainly not the deep threat that Wallace is ... but I said that from the very beginning before you even replied to me post. No, Jennings isn't a physically imposing WR, neither is Wallace ... Bowe is the only one who I said was physically imposing.

    As I've said many many times accross many many threads, I'd love to have Wallace, but I'm not sure I want to break the bank doing so. In a vacuum? Yeah, that's like asking me if I want a Ferrari ... SURE! But, my answer would be different when you attach a $300,000 price tag to it.

    For Philbin's team to be successful, his offense needs to work. It needs a deep threat ... but it doesn't have to be Wallace. I've noted many times and most people agreed that there are a lot of deep threats available in this draft. I certainly think we will draft 2 WR's in addition to adding 1 FA. So that means we need both a deep threat and someone to keep the chains moving. IMHO, nobody keeps the chains moving better than Jennings. Jennings' quickness makes him a better red zone threat than Wallace. Yes, Wallace is the superior deep threat. But, I fully expect that we will add at least 1 deep threat via the draft.
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  10. -30
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    Yeah wow. I clearly was at the office too long today. I read "quickness or hands" as "quickness of hands"

    I apologize.

    As for the rest of your post - I have to say first, please stop using extrinsic hive mind stuff to back up your points. It's a ****ty way of debate. I have no idea what you've posted in the past, and there is certainly no "consensus" that can be taken with authority.

    Wallace is more physical than Jennings. There's shades of gray here, not just black and white. You're exaggerating the sides of the spectrums to make your point. Wallace is the $300,000 Ferrari? I guess that makes Jennings the... 2 year older $210,000 Ferrari? Im seeing a WR who will command 8 million a year (speculation) versus a guy who will realistically get 12 million a year. 4 million a year difference.

    What are you saving that money for, exactly? We certainly have the space. Are we not re-signing Hartline if we grab Jennings and this 1st round receiver you want us to get? Personally, Im a big Patterson fan. I really am. But thats the #12 pick in the draft. Big cost, just not in terms of $!
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