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View Poll Results: Would make you the happiest???

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40. You may not vote on this poll
  • #12 pick = Patterson, 2a & 2b = BPA (3 picks)

    31 77.50%
  • #12 pick = BPA, 2a + 2b traded to move up and use for Patterson (2 picks)

    5 12.50%
  • #12 pick = Allen 2a & 2b used on BPA (3 picks)

    4 10.00%
  • #12 pick = BPA 2a and 2b traded to get Allen (2 picks)

    0 0%
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Thread: My Perspective, Patterson vs Allen

  1. -21
    ckparrothead's Avatar
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    Going back to the JUCO thing and realistic expectations for how JUCO players should produce in the first year coming out of JUCO, here are some more players for you. Not all of them are successful pros. They don't have to be. The point with Cordarrelle Patterson is not that he's going to be a successful pro because he's a JUCO transfer. The point with Cordarrelle Patterson is that he produced 778 receiving yards and 5 receiving touchdowns, which in SOME years would come shockingly close to leading the entire SEC in pure receiver catching production, and this should be considered pretty good for it being his first year off a JUCO transfer.

    But here are some stats on production of JUCO players from their 1st year on their new team, to the 2nd year:

    Isaac Bruce: 43-562-5, 74-1054-10
    Chad Johnson: 33-713-6, (no 2nd year off JUCO)
    Keyshawn Johnson: 58-1140-6, 90-1218-6
    Steve L. Smith: 35-743-4, (no 2nd year off JUCO)
    T.J. Houshmandzadeh: 24-378-2, 42-656-6
    Stevie Johnson: 12-159-1, 60-1041-13
    Kevin Curtis: 100-1531-10, 74-1258-9
    Deion Branch: 71-1016-9, 72-1188-9
    Devin Thomas: 6-90-1, 79-1260-8
    Robert Ferguson: 58-885-6, (no 2nd year off JUCO)
    Quincy Morgan: 41-1007-9, 64-1166-14
    Javon Walker: 20-313-3, 45-944-7

    The list above are all guys I could find that actually either did something in the NFL, or ended up taken in the 2nd round of the NFL Draft or better.

    They averaged 42 catches, 711 yards and 5 touchdowns receiving the football as first year JUCO transfers. Coincidentally (or not), Cordarrelle Patterson had 46 catches for 778 yards and 5 touchdowns as a first year JUCO transfer.
    Twitter: @ckparrot
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  2. -22
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    Had no idea all those guys came out of juco, thx for that info, it def gives me better insight and hope for Patterson. Your def making a good sales pitch.

    If you were to take Patterson, who else would you ideally bring in on offense or through the draft? I guess one of my biggest worries, is I want to see tannehill have legit targets now. I could accept Patterson a lot easier if we added more polished WRs. Than I would feel a lot more comfortable w that pick.

    I would still take Allen though if it was my choice. Your arguements make a lot of sense, but sometimes I watch guys like jacoby jones for instance, after all these years, still catches everything w his body. Raw WRs scare me more than a raw rush linebacker for instance. I feel like there's just a ton of technique and reads that these guys need to learn, and without seeing much of it, it's hard to grasp that Patterson will actually make that leap.
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  3. -23
    ckparrothead's Avatar
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    It's understandable. In no way am I trying to say Cordarrelle Patterson is a slam dunk and I'm not even saying he'd be my 1st choice at #12 overall. I just think he's on the list, and I think he's the only WR on the list at that pick.

    I don't know if Cordarrelle Patterson's catching technique is as raw as you perceive. I've watched most of his games and seen just about every ball thrown his way. The one situation I really have a question about is his over the shoulder catching on vertical passes. Not every receiver has that going for him. Otherwise he has shown plenty of times the ability to snatch the ball with his hands away from his body, but he also shows the ability to determine when it's best to shield the catch with his body in situations where the defensive back is on him.

    Where he's really raw is in his ability to see what's happening on the field, read leverage and make decisions quickly at full speed. That's going to come with time. But hell, Chad Johnson had an entire near-HOF career while masking an inability to do that consistently.

    As for how I see him fitting in Miami's offense, I think first off in free agency you've got to make a Brian Hartline/Greg Jennings determination. The reason I group those two together is because I think people might be surprised how little a premium Miami might have to pay for a Greg Jennings over what Brian Hartline is asking. I don't believe the Dolphins should pay Hartline more than $4 million a year, but Hartline is probably going to be asking closer to $6 million a year. And so what happens if you could get Greg Jennings for between $7 and $8 million a year, a mere $1-2 million premium to Hartline's asking price? To me that's an easy upgrade decision. But if negotiations with both fall through, I would take a hard look at Johnny Knox's health.

    But you're not done after that because whoever you get, be it Jennings, Knox or Hartline, isn't going to combine with Davone Bess to be good enough at that position. That's where a Cordarrelle Patterson would come in. But even then you'd not be done. There's too much talent in this Draft to just be "done" at that position. The Dolphins really only currently have two guys worth rostering, when you consider that Brian Hartline is a free agent. They have Davone Bess and Rishard Matthews. Armon Binns is a guy you bring to camp and see if he can win a job, no more than that. That's actually what Rishard Matthews still is, truth be told. So between the Hartline/Jennings/Knox acquisition, and the Patterson acquisition, you're still looking at one more acquisition. That's where you look at a Marquise Goodwin, Marquess Wilson or Chris Harper, IMO.
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  4. -24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ckparrothead View Post
    It's understandable. In no way am I trying to say Cordarrelle Patterson is a slam dunk and I'm not even saying he'd be my 1st choice at #12 overall. I just think he's on the list, and I think he's the only WR on the list at that pick.

    I don't know if Cordarrelle Patterson's catching technique is as raw as you perceive. I've watched most of his games and seen just about every ball thrown his way. The one situation I really have a question about is his over the shoulder catching on vertical passes. Not every receiver has that going for him. Otherwise he has shown plenty of times the ability to snatch the ball with his hands away from his body, but he also shows the ability to determine when it's best to shield the catch with his body in situations where the defensive back is on him.

    Where he's really raw is in his ability to see what's happening on the field, read leverage and make decisions quickly at full speed. That's going to come with time. But hell, Chad Johnson had an entire near-HOF career while masking an inability to do that consistently.

    As for how I see him fitting in Miami's offense, I think first off in free agency you've got to make a Brian Hartline/Greg Jennings determination. The reason I group those two together is because I think people might be surprised how little a premium Miami might have to pay for a Greg Jennings over what Brian Hartline is asking. I don't believe the Dolphins should pay Hartline more than $4 million a year, but Hartline is probably going to be asking closer to $6 million a year. And so what happens if you could get Greg Jennings for between $7 and $8 million a year, a mere $1-2 million premium to Hartline's asking price? To me that's an easy upgrade decision. But if negotiations with both fall through, I would take a hard look at Johnny Knox's health.

    But you're not done after that because whoever you get, be it Jennings, Knox or Hartline, isn't going to combine with Davone Bess to be good enough at that position. That's where a Cordarrelle Patterson would come in. But even then you'd not be done. There's too much talent in this Draft to just be "done" at that position. The Dolphins really only currently have two guys worth rostering, when you consider that Brian Hartline is a free agent. They have Davone Bess and Rishard Matthews. Armon Binns is a guy you bring to camp and see if he can win a job, no more than that. That's actually what Rishard Matthews still is, truth be told. So between the Hartline/Jennings/Knox acquisition, and the Patterson acquisition, you're still looking at one more acquisition. That's where you look at a Marquise Goodwin, Marquess Wilson or Chris Harper, IMO.
    Curious, Why no mention of Mike Wallace?
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  5. -25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ANUFan View Post
    Curious, Why no mention of Mike Wallace?
    I'm not that big a fan of his anymore. He's a little one-dimensional and I wonder if he hasn't been made a little bit by Ben Roethlisberger.

    I do not at all consider Wallace to be a bad character. I just wonder if he has skills that would translate his Pittsburgh production onto a new team. Especially this team.
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  6. -26
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    May be overkill, but I think we need Jennings AND Hartline. Couple those with Patterson as a deep threat and Bess in the slot and all of a sudden we have a WR corps that challenges defenses.

    In my mind Patterson > Wallace, but it is one or the other on those guys. If we got someone like Wallace in FA, then I could unsterstand someone like Allen (but not at 12).
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  7. -27
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    Im in agreement that we need to chose either jennings or hartline for same reasons ck said.

    Another reason for that is we won't put ourselves in a financial hole with a player like Wallace, it makes no sense to do that with a draft stacked in a WRs. IMO in any draft stacked at any position, you do everything possible to embrace it. No sense paying Wallace 12 mill when we can pay 3 WRs the same amt of money.

    I wanted Wallace badly, but looking at the cap space and what is smarter long term, we can use that money to fill other areas, maybe less exciting areas. And go all out on playmakers in the draft.

    Would be nice to develop our own stars and playmakers.

    I actually looked at some pictures of Patterson and Julio, and they are identical in there build. Talents are a bit different but they are very similar in one aspect and that's body control. With the ball Patterson has incredible body control, Julio IMO has superior body control going after the ball.

    Ck has Patterson growing on me again.
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  8. -28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ckparrothead View Post
    I'm not that big a fan of his anymore. He's a little one-dimensional and I wonder if he hasn't been made a little bit by Ben Roethlisberger.

    I do not at all consider Wallace to be a bad character. I just wonder if he has skills that would translate his Pittsburgh production onto a new team. Especially this team.

    Can you see him going to New England?
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  9. -29
    Etuoo33's Avatar
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    The prospect of making him our first round choice makes it more important that we add a guy like Jennings to help Patterson learn how to read and react to defensive situations. I like him but wonder if 12 is too high vs losing him to another needy team!
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  10. -30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ANUFan View Post
    Can you see him going to New England?
    Not their type either, IMO.

    I could see Greg Jennings going there, though.
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