Welcome to FinHeaven Fans Forums! We're glad to have you here. Please feel free to browse the forum. We'd like to invite you to join our community; doing so will enable you to view additional forums and post with our other members.



VIP Members don't see these ads. Join VIP Now
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12

Thread: Final Four OL's & LT's vs Dolphins

  1. -1
    FinHeaven VIP

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Jul 2006
    Posts:
    12,158
    vCash:
    8482
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Tannehill 17
Gift received at 02-24-2014, 02:26 PM from hooshoopsTannehill 17Tannehill 17

    Final Four OL's & LT's vs Dolphins

    These are the ranks of the OL's and LT's, of the teams who made the final four in the NFL, for the 2012 regular season. My intent here is to start a discussion on how important the OL and LT are in getting the Phins back into contention. The rankings are only a part of this. Everyone has seen these teams play, and should have an opinion of how important the OL is for our future success.

    The Pats were #7 in pass blocking, #2 in run blocking, and their LT Solder was #20 in pass, #5 in run.

    The 49ers were #10 in pass blocking, #1 in run blocking, and LT Staley was #14 in pass, #1 in run.

    The Ravens were #19 in pass blocking, #10 in run blocking, and LT Oher was #26 in pass, #25 in run. ***

    The Falcons were #24 in pass blocking, #26 in run blocking, and LT Baker was #18 in pass, #23 in run.

    *** Balt moved Oher to RT after 14 games, and McKinee to LT, which has worked well.

    The Dolphins were #24 in pass blocking, #23 in run blocking, and Long was #24 in pass, #19 in run.

    What does all this mean in the Bigger Picture on what we should do this off season? I have noticed that being able to run is not as forgotten about as some may believe.
    Quote Quote  

  2. -2
    flynryan15's Avatar
    FinHeaven VIP

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Jan 2009
    Posts:
    13,148
    vCash:
    3622
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Cam Wake 912013 Dolphins LogoMike Wallace 11
    Neither Superbowl team had a 100 yd back yesterday. The Niners had about 150yds rushing total and the Ravens 130. Yet in 40mph winds on the road it was a second half air attack that dominated the Pats spread and stretch the field it is that simple
    The above post is not subject to penalty under the TOS I declare the Hayden Fox defense. " It is impossible for the staff to know my context therefore I cannot be penalized"

    Quote Quote  

  3. -3
    FinHeaven VIP

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Jul 2006
    Posts:
    12,158
    vCash:
    8482
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Tannehill 17
Gift received at 02-24-2014, 02:26 PM from hooshoopsTannehill 17Tannehill 17
    Quote Originally Posted by flynryan15 View Post
    Neither Superbowl team had a 100 yd back yesterday. The Niners had about 150yds rushing total and the Ravens 130. Yet in 40mph winds on the road it was a second half air attack that dominated the Pats spread and stretch the field it is that simple
    True story but, both came into play in the wins. In today's game the pass sets up the run, as opposed to the past when it was reversed.
    Quote Quote  

  4. -4
    Digital's Avatar
    Starter

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Feb 2008
    Posts:
    2,978
    vCash:
    9066
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Great stats, thanks! I think it bears mention that these stats are in relation to the overall philosophy of these teams. Both Harbaugh teams, the ones in the Super Bowl, are exceptions to the rule today. They are built on defense and the run game. Old school control the line of scrimmage stuff like Parcellsball. With so many defenses built to stop the pass, dominating running teams can have success, and that's what they have had. But, most years these type of teams haven't been as successful. Most years its the aerial attacks like Green Bay, New England, and the New York Giants that really succeeded in the end.

    Great note on the Ravens. IMHO, they were only dominant in the first half of the season when they ran Ray Rice and he couldn't be stopped. Much like the Houston Texans and their run game. But, when teams started slowing down the run game, they needed everything to come together for it to work. The Ravens leaned more heavily on their traditionally dominant defense (which is now starting to get healthy) and good play in their passing game. These things and the OL switches have helped that offense. Looking at their OL, I think their run blocking numbers are skewed. They were dominant for a while, then poor for a while, and the average isn't nearly as revealing for them IMHO.

    The Falcons had the worst OL, but their emphasis on the downfield passing game made it harder for the OL to rank highly in pass protection. Their running numbers were just great when they could use a heavy dose of Michael Turner, but fearing he would wear down and break in the post season, the Falcons limited his touches all year. True to form, when Turner went down in the playoffs is when the Falcons went from winning to losing and out of the playoffs. Put a good power back like Lacey in that team and those OL numbers look a lot better IMHO.

    What can I say about the Patriots ... nothing that I'd like to say that's for sure. Fantastic pass blockers all around, and IMHO better than their #7 ranking as a unit and Solder was better than #20 as a LT. Their run numbers are inflated. Josh McDaniels really got the best out of them this year. The fear of the pass and frustration blitzing that OL caused many teams to play coverage against the Patriots a lot. So with tons of DB's out there, the Patriots ran with small, strong, fast and quick little RB's that hit the hole fast and were in the 2nd echelon in no time. These OL run block numbers are primarily because the OL outnumbered the DL and the LB's were swapped out for DB's deeper in coverage. So, the Patriots took what the defense gave them, and the run numbers were big. Smart play. But, it was predicated on the fact that the Patriots pass protection was absolutely stellar. Rarely did Brady have to avoid a rush ... it was like running drills in half-shells. No pressure = Brady makes a perfect pass. Hitting those great hands WR's with perfect passes means completions. IMHO, nobody really stops that offense, but thankfully, the Ravens slowed it down well!

    Those teams have a lot of high draft picks invested in their lines. But, I'd say that the 49'ers OL is head and shoulders above all of the other lines. The Patriots, IMHO, are clearly the 2nd best and the very best pass blocking despite the numbers. The Ravens line is a strength, but heavily buoyed by an excellent RB, big armed QB paired with a wicked fast deep threat WR to keep the safety back and running lanes open, and a big sure-handed guy at the 2nd WR and TE who are great safety valves. That offense may not be as exciting as the Patriots or Falcons, but it has all the pieces in place to make life easy on the OL.

    If the Falcons ran a WCO with lots of short passes, their OL numbers would be considerably better. But, their offense as it is currently is superior for team success.

    The Dolphins? Last season was a transition to the ZBS, so this season will be a better indicator. Jake Long was injured, but I still beleive he is one of the very best LT's in the game. Mike Pouncey had a great season and looks poised for years of future high production. Jonathan Martin lacks the power to play in the NFL, but he has everything else, so I'm holding out hope that he can get there. Long's numbers were subpar last year, but I expect better in 2013, because every other year he has had was far better. Martin's numbers were terrible and we chain-fed the guy help, so if that continues, he's a bust. But, transitioning from college to the pros is hard and the biggest improvement for OL tends to be between year 1 and year 2. He probably slimmed down for the speed/quickness stuff for the combine last year, he couldn't add the weight/strength with the longer training times in the pros, and he was overcompensating against the power moves made him uncharacteristically vulnerable to the speed moves. That will get better. Richie Incognito was better than expected, but still not really impressive. John Jerry, who sounded like such a success story coming out of Hard Knocks, proved to be an unmittigated disaster. I was never onboard with the Jerry pick, and he has proven to be nothing but a very poor NFL player who nobody wants to give up on because potential, like The Precious, is just too mesmerizing to resist.

    Yes, we need at least 1 new OL for 2013, possibly 2. I'd try very hard to re-sign Jake Long, because Jonathan Martin simply cannot play the position, and I don't want to be the 2013 version of the St. Louis Cardinals line or the Philadelphia Eagles line. We need competent LT play for this offense to flourish. Rodgers may make it work without a LT, but Peyton, Brady and most of the other top QB's can't. I think we all know that it is a recipe for disaster to ask a young inexperienced QB with lots of new players at WR to now deal with scrambling from his lack of backside protection.
    Quote Quote  

  5. -5
    FinHeaven VIP

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Jul 2006
    Posts:
    12,158
    vCash:
    8482
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Tannehill 17
Gift received at 02-24-2014, 02:26 PM from hooshoopsTannehill 17Tannehill 17
    Well said. Disagree on the "aerial attack" of the Giants, winning 21-17, and 17-14, and Long had a bad year in 2011 as well. Injuries do matter.

    Although there are many top picks on the OL's, don't see any high priced guys.
    Quote Quote  

  6. -6
    Thumper1016's Avatar
    Perennial All-Pro

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Sep 2004
    Posts:
    2,606
    vCash:
    10067
    Loc:
    Wheatland, WY
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Gears of War tagPlaystation LogoCam Wake 91PS4 Controller2013 Dolphins Logo
    I would like to steal Vollmer away from the pats.
    Quote Quote  

  7. -7
    Digital's Avatar
    Starter

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Feb 2008
    Posts:
    2,978
    vCash:
    9066
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by Southbeach 2 View Post
    Well said. Disagree on the "aerial attack" of the Giants, winning 21-17, and 17-14, and Long had a bad year in 2011 as well. Injuries do matter.

    Although there are many top picks on the OL's, don't see any high priced guys.
    Fair enough. I suspect that when guys like Staley and Solder could command more from other teams. I'd guess Iupati could be well paid if he went for the money as well, but one could argue that big money guards are still kinda cheap. I'd like to test that though by trying to bring in Andy Levitre.

    I wasn't sure whether to include or exclude the Giants initially, because they have a strong pass rush and good defense overall. But, looking back at their playoff runs it was usually Eli and the passing game that made the difference in their games. They didn't win the Super Bowl on the back of their offensive line or the feet of their running game really. Stellar QB play and clutch WR play really made the difference IMHO, so I included them. But, I can see taking exception with that example as well.

    At the time I went on a tirade against Sparano using Jake Long against the Bears when it was woefully obvious that he had only 1 arm. Part of that bad year was the simple fact that he wasn't fit to play and his coach foolishly jeopardized his career by forcing him in there. He gave up something like 2 or 3 sacks against Julius Peppers and crew, but if you watched the game it was really a huge testament to how great Jake Long was ... with one arm. So yeah, since that time he hasn't seemed like the same guy, and I definitely agree that injuries coupled with age and recent form make him a less attractive prospect. But, looking at his performance over time, his injuries aren't as stunting as we feared.

    The biggest difference this year was switching to a new ZBS system, and his technique faltered some because of it and he let through more hurries and sacks than usual. But also bear in mind we left him on an island a LOT, and the only OL to help him was a power run blocker in Incognito. We seldom left a TE or RB to help, but we often did so for the rookie Martin. Even in what was unquestionably Long's worst year, his problems appeared more technique in adjusting to the ZBS than physical. I'd say Long's problem wasn't in doing the ZBS as much as it was consistency with the technique. I'd expect that to improve dramatically in this offseason, as many of the teams that need and are willing to pay for LT's also may run the ZBS.
    Quote Quote  

  8. -8
    DzakkH13's Avatar
    Winning is a Habit

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Mar 2006
    Posts:
    3,753
    vCash:
    19
    Loc:
    Flagstaff, Arizona
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Dolphin1972 Dolphins LogoJurassic WorldCam Wake 91
    A strong running game and stout defense are great ways to have playoff success.

    But the fact still remains, you HAVE TO HAVE very good play from the QB position to make a serious Super Bowl run.

    Hopefully Tannehill can be that guy we need and time will tell.


    - Hall of Fame Safety Rod Woodson on Dan Marino playing in today's NFL:
    "...the best quarterback I believe is Dan Marino..."
    "If he played with these rules, he'd throw for 100,000 yards."


    Twitter
    - https://twitter.com/ciscoholgate

    Quote Quote  

  9. -9
    NorFlaFin's Avatar
    PowerHungryMo'fo

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Sep 2004
    Posts:
    3,879
    vCash:
    3193
    Thanks / No Thanks
    The Falcon lost for two reason, can't/wont run the ball and their defense is soft.
    Quote Quote  

  10. -10
    AdamC13's Avatar
    Awe "Tight End" my favorite position!

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Aug 2009
    Posts:
    2,207
    vCash:
    1394
    Thanks / No Thanks
    The run game has become less a factor in determining Super Bowl champion. In the last 11 years only two times has a team finished in the top 10 in ypc (NO and NYG in 07). And only 4 times has the SB champ been in the top 12 in rushing yards per game. Last year's SB champs, NYG, were dead last in both ypc and ypg. Having said that I think both SF and Baltimore incorporate the run game and use it to set up the pass game.

    What should Miami do with Long? The Long of this year is not worth top $$$. Resigning him will significantly take a chunk out of the salary cap. But when healthy hard to argue he is a liability being on the roster.
    Quote Quote  

Similar Threads

  1. Dolphins in final 4 for CFL WR
    By BAMAPHIN 22 in forum Miami Dolphins Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-13-2011, 05:53 PM
  2. Replies: 33
    Last Post: 06-24-2010, 04:50 PM
  3. Dolphins Among Final Three For Ashworth...
    By banzaitrey in forum Miami Dolphins Forum
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 03-16-2006, 12:44 PM
  4. My Final Dolphins Mock
    By NYFCat in forum Miami Dolphins Forum
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 04-26-2003, 10:05 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •