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View Poll Results: Your position on gun control in America?

Voters
60. You may not vote on this poll
  • Immediate ban on all guns.

    0 0%
  • Guns only for military/police.

    2 3.33%
  • Bolt/pump/lever action ok, no semi-autos.

    9 15.00%
  • Gun laws are fine as they currently stand.

    15 25.00%
  • Select-fire weapons should be allowed.

    6 10.00%
  • You can have them when you pry them from my cold, dead hands.

    16 26.67%
  • I want a tank.

    12 20.00%
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Thread: Go on record: YOUR gun control position.

  1. -91
    TheWalrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohall View Post
    I need a gun, it makes me feel safe.
    This really cuts to the heart of it, in my view. To the point where nothing else matters. Not what the Constitution actually says. Not established legal precedent. Not statistics on the effectiveness or lack thereof of gun control. Not how many lives could potentially be saved by establishing certain procedures and initiatives.

    Nothing. Just this... that you need a gun because it makes you feel safe. You don't even care that having a gun is statistically proven to make you less safe. Doesn't matter, because you have to know it's there. You offer positions and debate others only as a show, when the truth is no intellectually based argument can ever hope to make a dent, because you dismiss them without thinking.

    You're scared, is what it is. And nothing else matters because you're scared.
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  2. -92
    Bumpus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWalrus View Post
    This really cuts to the heart of it, in my view. To the point where nothing else matters. Not what the Constitution actually says. Not established legal precedent. Not statistics on the effectiveness or lack thereof of gun control. Not how many lives could potentially be saved by establishing certain procedures and initiatives.

    Nothing. Just this... that you need a gun because it makes you feel safe. You don't even care that having a gun is statistically proven to make you less safe. Doesn't matter, because you have to know it's there. You offer positions and debate others only as a show, when the truth is no intellectually based argument can ever hope to make a dent, because you dismiss them without thinking.

    You're scared, is what it is. And nothing else matters because you're scared.
    Nope.

    Although, the same argument could quite easily be flipped ...


    Some Americans want to do away with the 2nd Amendment because they are scared of guns. Why are some semi-auto rifles under attack, while others are fine? Because they look like scary military rifles. They actually aren't any more lethal. But the plain truth is they're scary looking. So a false sense of security is gained by trying to get rid of them.
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  3. -93
    ohall's Avatar
    A Miami Dolphins fan, not a players fan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWalrus View Post
    This really cuts to the heart of it, in my view. To the point where nothing else matters. Not what the Constitution actually says. Not established legal precedent. Not statistics on the effectiveness or lack thereof of gun control. Not how many lives could potentially be saved by establishing certain procedures and initiatives.

    Nothing. Just this... that you need a gun because it makes you feel safe. You don't even care that having a gun is statistically proven to make you less safe. Doesn't matter, because you have to know it's there. You offer positions and debate others only as a show, when the truth is no intellectually based argument can ever hope to make a dent, because you dismiss them without thinking.

    You're scared, is what it is. And nothing else matters because you're scared.
    Why else would you need a gun, for decoration, to eat? I'm not sure how this is news to anyone.

    If you aren't scared, I hope you never get that wake up call my friend.
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  4. -94
    TheWalrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohall View Post
    Why else would you need a gun, for decoration, to eat? I'm not sure how this is news to anyone.

    If you aren't scared, I hope you never get that wake up call my friend.
    If your fear was based in rationality, you would be more scared of the gun in your house than of random bogeymen roaming the street.
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  5. -95
    rob19's Avatar
    Soul Rebel

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    Bumpus hunts & is perfectly competent with guns. He's not some dope that bought a pistol having never fired or loaded a gun in his life. I'm sure he's more confident that he'd first use that gun on an intruder (however unlikely you believe that may be [1]), than himself. Part of the reason I don't own a gun is that I don't believe I'm well-trained enough with them; I think there's a good amount of current gun-owners who don't have the same self-awareness.

    Personally, I question the effectiveness of a semi-auto ban. I know people like to point at Australia & think they've got the issue in the bag (& I don't care that they also happen to speak English or they also happen to be English cast-offs), but if you look at the level of gun-enthusiasm of Australia versus that of the United States, it's just not comparable. Currently there's about 88.7 guns to every 100 persons in the United States, whereas in Australia that number is 15 guns per every 100 persons, & prior to their ban that number was around 20 guns to every 100 persons [2]. This is the most gun-centric culture on the planet by a country-mile.

    To those who think that there wouldn't be an underground market for such guns is a bit of a fantasy idea in my opinion. People will supply the demand if the market is large enough, & in this country, it's more than large enough. Everyone's just not going to agree to leave that money on the table. If you could assure me a ban of such a kind would not lead to a black-market I'd be more willing to go along with it, but I remain unconvinced. In the same way that I had a harder time buying alcohol as a minor, Lanza had a harder time buying guns legally than he did otherwise. I'd like to see these guns regulated rather than banned.

    I would like to see stricter regulations concerning background checks & things like that, & I know this is a smaller issue but I'd also like the states to implement a mandatory waiting period for any firearm. I agree, secondary-markets are a problem, & there are a few states trying to implement solutions, but it's currently far too few.

    A handful of states, including California and Rhode Island, require universal background checks for all private party transactions. If someone wanted to purchase from an unlicensed seller at a gun show or anywhere else, he or she would have to go to a federally licensed seller to certify the transaction: the licensed dealer would have to perform a background check before the sale could go through and keep a record of the transfer.

    Other states, including Illinois, require that sellers register the transaction with the state, though they don't require background checks for all private sales (Illinois requires background checks at gun shows). States such as Hawaii require all gun purchasers, including in the private market, to do a background check and obtain a gun license, which lasts for 10 days.
    [1]
    A 1993 nationwide survey of 4,977 households found that over the previous five years, at least 3.5% of households had members who had used a gun "for self-protection or for the protection of property at home, work, or elsewhere." Applied to the U.S. population, this amounts to 1,029,615 such incidents per year. This figure excludes all "military service, police work, or work as a security guard."

    Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.
    http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

    [2]
    http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/australia


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  6. -96
    ohall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWalrus View Post
    If your fear was based in rationality, you would be more scared of the gun in your house than of random bogeymen roaming the street.
    Sounds nice, but it's not based in reality. I'd love to live in the world some of you are creating here. The issue is that world doesn't exist outside of bubble gum and unicorns. I didn't make the mess the world is currently in, but I do have to live here. I'd like to live as long as I can, as a man, not as someone who puts his life and his families life in some magical phone call you want everyone to make when the **** hits the fan. That person/persons trying to get into where you live, or to gain access to your family is not going to wait for the ppl at the other end of that magical phone call to pick up!

    Who's being rational and/or irrational now?
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  7. -97
    Starter

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    My position is simply put. The Government doesn't ask what i want or think when they endlessly bomb other countries or spend our money on their criminal friends on Wall Street. So i don't care what they think i should own. Having said that. I wouldn't want anything more than a semi-auto or shotgun, see no desire to own a fully auto. I also support a month waiting period before i could buy anything meaner than a BB gun, should be a total background check.
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  8. -98
    phinfan3411's Avatar
    pofo mofo

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWalrus View Post
    This really cuts to the heart of it, in my view. To the point where nothing else matters. Not what the Constitution actually says. Not established legal precedent. Not statistics on the effectiveness or lack thereof of gun control. Not how many lives could potentially be saved by establishing certain procedures and initiatives.

    Nothing. Just this... that you need a gun because it makes you feel safe. You don't even care that having a gun is statistically proven to make you less safe. Doesn't matter, because you have to know it's there. You offer positions and debate others only as a show, when the truth is no intellectually based argument can ever hope to make a dent, because you dismiss them without thinking.

    You're scared, is what it is. And nothing else matters because you're scared.
    I have a point to make, the part you bolded comes from the Kellermann study, does it not?

    Well having read the study, i would say whether you were pro gun or anti gun, either group would have snippets from that study that you could use to bolster their prospective arguments.

    The number one stat that throws off the numbers though is that most people think of normal everyday law abiding gun owners contribute to those findings...that is ALMOST COMPLETELY FALSE. Yes, every once in a while a registered pistol permit holder goes off, but the number is so small it is almost non existent. The people that contributed to these statistics, for the most part are the scumbags that will always have guns, even if its not lawful for us.

    There was a multiple shooting at a after hours party in downtown buffalo a few years ago. Shooter turned out to be a POS gang banger. Here is where the story gets interesting though, our local paper, usually a liberal rag, started to come under fire for reporting that many of the dead had big time criminal records, while others argued that had nothing to do with it, and should not be reported. I don't care if they report it or not, these scumbags tend to kill other scumbags, and if you are in that profession two things usually come with it, you have a gun, and you tend to not live as long as normal people do.

    So, in summary, yes I admit that the loser scumbags in this country have guns, and use them to kill each other. That very study has different data to filter out the scumbags, like what happens if a gun is in the house where nobody has a criminal record, but those numbers do not fit the agenda at hand. Just keep in mind when you hear stats like this, that is how they fool you, they make no differentiation between people legally or illegally having guns usually, in most of these studies, it's either they have a gun in the house or not.

    In my neck of the woods, i would make a guess as to a large portion of the MURDER VICTIMS coming in have a gun in the house, you just have to realistically think who the normal murder victims are in your city.
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  9. -99
    TheWalrus's Avatar
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    I'll get to Australia in a minute but I'm seriously puzzled how you can rectify these two statements:

    Quote Originally Posted by rob19 View Post
    To those who think that there wouldn't be an underground market for such guns is a bit of a fantasy idea in my opinion.
    I would like to see stricter regulations concerning background checks & things like that, & I know this is a smaller issue but I'd also like the states to implement a mandatory waiting period for any firearm. I agree, secondary-markets are a problem, & there are a few states trying to implement solutions, but it's currently far too few.
    Why enact stricter regulations for background checks? I mean, aren't the people who are denied on the basis of that check just going to get them on the black market? Why do any of this stuff, honestly... if the fact that there won't be an underground is a "fantasy"?

    Now, as for Australia... it's not a perfect example but it's the best one we have. Can you think of another country where gun ownership was fairly prevalent before strict gun control laws (enacted in two big pushes eight years apart, allowing for hard demarcation lines to study the effects) were put in place? The legislation is old enough to have plenty of time to study it's "results" in a fairly comprehensive manner, but not so old the results can be dismissed as from another era.

    Seriously, what's a better example? Because it's a cheap conceit to say you need an example of this type of thing working and then say there's no example.

    In the same way that I had a harder time buying alcohol as a minor, Lanza had a harder time buying guns legally than he did otherwise. I'd like to see these guns regulated rather than banned.
    So the relative effectiveness of Australia's gun control laws isn't relevant to a discussion of America's gun control laws yet teenagers buying alcohol is? Ok.
    Last edited by TheWalrus; 01-27-2013 at 01:38 PM.
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  10. -100
    TheWalrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohall View Post
    Who's being rational and/or irrational now?
    I am, for not believing I'm Charles Bronson and that life is Death Wish.
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