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View Poll Results: Your position on gun control in America?

Voters
62. You may not vote on this poll
  • Immediate ban on all guns.

    0 0%
  • Guns only for military/police.

    2 3.23%
  • Bolt/pump/lever action ok, no semi-autos.

    9 14.52%
  • Gun laws are fine as they currently stand.

    15 24.19%
  • Select-fire weapons should be allowed.

    6 9.68%
  • You can have them when you pry them from my cold, dead hands.

    16 25.81%
  • I want a tank.

    14 22.58%
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Thread: Go on record: YOUR gun control position.

  1. -81
    TheWalrus's Avatar
    1/7/14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bumpus View Post
    "A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."

    (well-regulated militia) seems to be a package deal...
    Honestly, the gun laws that exist (if they were executed to their full extent) would suffice for "well-regulated."
    Says you. But surely you would agree the term is vague enough to include a whole galaxy of interpretations.

    However the entirety of the first line is only proving a claim,
    "A well regulated Militia = being necessary to the security of a free State"
    premise: a well-regulated militia necessitates a secure state.
    premise: Citizen's being able to own firearms is necessary for the formation of militia
    conclusion: therefore citizen's will have the right to own firearms.
    But that's no longer true. We have the Army for that. If the right to bear arms was intended for the purpose of providing security (since a regular Army capable of defending the nation did not exist at that time), and not ensuring that people can bear arms for it's own sake, then it seems you've really opened yourself up to one of two counter arguments:

    1.) The amendment is arcane. It guarantees a right to do something for a purpose that no longer exists, therefore the right itself no longer exists. Or,
    2.) The right only exists within the context of national (or state) security. In other words, Army personnel and reservists only.

    Fortunately for you, the way you're characterizing the amendment is not the way it's generally be interpreted. It's always, to my knowledge (I'm far from an expert, but this is my understanding), been taken to guarantee an individual's right to bear arms for their own personal security or use, and not just within the context of national security or militias. That language is not in the amendment itself, but that is the weight of judicial interpretation until now.

    the latter portion explicitly states the right, "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed." this being the case, the first portion can only be used to provide historical context as to why the right was explicitly stated. Regardless the constitution was supposed to be a breathing document, if the right to bear arms is no longer important to the american republic then the constitution should be amended. The historical context behind the initial framing should not be cited as the primary modern reasoning behind the right itself.
    That depends on your style of judicial interpretation, but once again I think you're backing yourself into a corner. Generally it's those who care about the original intent of the 2nd amendment who come down on the side of a broad reading of gun rights (which you're in favor of). Those who don't care as much about the amendment's historical context are the ones who generally view it as arcane and take a more favorable view of strict gun control.
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  2. -82
    Bumpus's Avatar
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    To be clear: My real interpretation if the 2nd amendment is as follows:

    I am a caretaker of the right of the Amarican People to own effective firearms. The founding fathers wanted us to have muskets (elite weapons at the time) BECAUSE that was the **** at the time.

    I'll be damned if I'm gonna have to explain to my dependants as to why I decided to allow a group of knee-jerk reactionaries to make their (or their descendants) reliant upon the kindness of others.

    If you've got something better than our Constitution, please clue us in.

    Otherwise, STFU!


    The Second Amendment GUARANTEES the rest of them.
    2014 Goals:
    1) Win the next game.
    2) See goal #1





    "The problem with internet quotes lies in verifying their authenticity."
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  3. -83
    ohall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tunaphish429 View Post
    I can have an opinion about anything i want. I also think there are freedoms ppl should have and ppl should not have. I am sorry you dont need a gun. Its not imperative to your survival. If you wanna protect yourself get a dog or a security system. If we lived in a world where ppl were responsible all the time then we could have guns...but ppl are not. And when they go crazy somehow guns are always involved. We cant change televison and we cant change movies. The only thing we can change are the tools that ppl have to destroy. And guns are far too easily accessible and far too destructive. I also think that a 300 year old piece of paper does not mean **** to me.

    Sent from my DROID Pro using Tapatalk 2
    So when a bad guy shoots your dog and disables your security system, then what, ask them nicely to leave because you are a good person and you dialed 911?

    People kill other ppl with horse ****, rental vans and gasoline. Yet you think getting rid of guns is going to resolve stuff?

    FYI, that piece of paper is the foundation of this country. I'm just amazed how some ppl don't seem to grasp what happens when you start to tear down the foundations of this country!
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  4. -84
    TheWalrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bumpus View Post
    To be clear: My real interpretation if the 2nd amendment is as follows:

    I am a caretaker of the right of the Amarican People to own effective firearms. The founding fathers wanted us to have muskets (elite weapons at the time) BECAUSE that was the **** at the time.

    I'll be damned if I'm gonna have to explain to my dependants as to why I decided to allow a group of knee-jerk reactionaries to make their (or their descendants) reliant upon the kindness of others.

    If you've got something better than our Constitution, please clue us in.

    Otherwise, STFU!


    The Second Amendment GUARANTEES the rest of them.
    If you care so much about the Constitution why resort to this kind of flailing emotional statement rather than making a rational Constitutional argument?
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  5. -85
    Bumpus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWalrus View Post
    If you care so much about the Constitution why resort to this kind of flailing emotional statement rather than making a rational Constitutional argument?
    Because people are attacking our rights.

    I get emotional about that ****.



    Plus, I was drunk.
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  6. -86
    Tunaphish429's Avatar
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    Re: Go on record: YOUR gun control position.

    Quote Originally Posted by ohall View Post
    So when a bad guy shoots your dog and disables your security system, then what, ask them nicely to leave because you are a good person and you dialed 911?

    People kill other ppl with horse ****, rental vans and gasoline. Yet you think getting rid of guns is going to resolve stuff?

    FYI, that piece of paper is the foundation of this country. I'm just amazed how some ppl don't seem to grasp what happens when you start to tear down the foundations of this country!
    so if you own a gun and you try and use it then it jams? Sounds like your **** out of luck in both situations..

    With your logic then that means since there are things more deadly than guns we should keep guns legal and or unregulated? Good job!! Maybe we should allow citizens to have fighter jets with bombs and missiles on them too...

    I am sure no one will ever use one to cause death.

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  7. -87
    ohall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tunaphish429 View Post
    so if you own a gun and you try and use it then it jams? Sounds like your **** out of luck in both situations..

    With your logic then that means since there are things more deadly than guns we should keep guns legal and or unregulated? Good job!! Maybe we should allow citizens to have fighter jets with bombs and missiles on them too...

    I am sure no one will ever use one to cause death.

    Sent from my DROID Pro using Tapatalk 2
    Honestly I don't even know how to respond that logic. From guns to jet fighters?

    FYI I wish I lived in your world, I really do, but we don't. In my world we have ppl that kill hundreds of ppl with, horse ****, rental vans and diesel fuel. Keep thinking guns are the issue.
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  8. -88
    Tunaphish429's Avatar
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    Re: Go on record: YOUR gun control position.

    Quote Originally Posted by ohall View Post
    Honestly I don't even know how to respond that logic. From guns to jet fighters?

    FYI I wish I lived in your world, I really do, but we don't. In my world we have ppl that kill hundreds of ppl with, horse ****, rental vans and diesel fuel. Keep thinking guns are the issue.
    My point is guns are made for one reason.. so are fighter jets. Horse **** and rental vans have other purposes. Its almost impossible to regulate them. If someone finds a way to weaponize them the only thing we can do is be vigilant about ppl who are buying mass amount of horse ****. You can spew all of your horse **** logic i am not buying. Guns are weapons that kill ppl. You dont need one. I dont need one. I actually like manuer its a refreshing word.

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  9. -89
    ohall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tunaphish429 View Post
    My point is guns are made for one reason.. so are fighter jets. Horse **** and rental vans have other purposes. Its almost impossible to regulate them. If someone finds a way to weaponize them the only thing we can do is be vigilant about ppl who are buying mass amount of horse ****. You can spew all of your horse **** logic i am not buying. Guns are weapons that kill ppl. You dont need one. I dont need one. I actually like manuer its a refreshing word.

    Sent from my DROID Pro using Tapatalk 2
    I need a gun, it makes me feel safe. In no way is a security system or dialing 911 going to 100% protect me and my family. Further as an American citizen I have the right to be in a position to not fear my government, and if it comes to it, fight that government.

    You missed my point about horse ****, diesel fuel and rental trucks. Violent crimes, murder etc still occur with out fire arms. If you were to some how unicorn magically remove guns from the picture we'd still be killing each other. We've been killing each other since we have been able to breath. How this reality is lost on some ppl is very very scary to me!

    Your logic to me makes zero sense, because it stinks of naivete. Just because you don't feel you need a gun that doesn't have anything to do with me. Don't make those decisions for me, thx.
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  10. -90
    Bumpus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tunaphish429 View Post
    so if you own a gun and you try and use it then it jams? Sounds like your **** out of luck in both situations..

    With your logic then that means since there are things more deadly than guns we should keep guns legal and or unregulated? Good job!! Maybe we should allow citizens to have fighter jets with bombs and missiles on them too...

    I am sure no one will ever use one to cause death.

    Sent from my DROID Pro using Tapatalk 2
    Awesome. Mark me down for two. I'd like mine with sidewinders & MOAB's.






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