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Thread: Article: So what if abortion ends a human life...

  1. -21
    tylerdolphin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Statler Waldorf View Post
    How do you measure the importance of a life?
    Family net worth seems like a good place to start IMO IYAM FWIW RTR.




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  2. -22
    Statler Waldorf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tylerdolphin View Post
    Family net worth seems like a good place to start IMO IYAM FWIW RTR.
    Sarcasm?
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  3. -23
    trojanma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Statler Waldorf View Post

    I think this is a bit of a non-sequitur, a person can consistently be pro-life and also believe it is not the proper role of the federal Government to financially support low income citizens and their families.
    It is only a non-sequitor if you don't understand the connection.

    By being "pro-life" you champion yourself as the protector of innocent life.

    Well if you don't provide impoverished mothers with basic prenatal care you are sentencing twice as many fetuses to death(women without prenatal care have double the infant mortality rate). Even more to post birth morbidity and mortality. Probably about a million children a year are born to mothers who depend on Medicaid.
    43 million children use medicaid or CHIP for their healthcare.
    Essential vaccines, essential treatments. Are these children not innocents?

    If the government is not going to provide impoverished people with prenatal care, who is?
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  4. -24
    Dovahkiin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Statler Waldorf View Post
    How do you measure the importance of a life? If we deemed your life unimportant are we justified in killing you?
    I think we've deemed your posting on this forum unimportant and I wish someone would kill your acount. Who would have guessed that you would reply with such a dumb comment. I'm already here. Killing me is murder. I'm talking about worthless people who have no business having kids in the first place because the odds are stacked against them in the first place. Alot of people out there in this world can hardly be responsible enough in their minimum wage job in the fast food industry and we expect them to raise children to be successful? Nope. Sorry. Isn't happening. Nip it in the bud as they say. Or in the womb in this case here. Check out this video below and tell me that this world wouldn't be better off without these people in it. Look at the adults in this video and then watch how the kids act as a result. All of these kids should have been aborted so that they don't rob and kill when they get older. Poor children don't stand a chance in life. My kids attend private schools FWIW. http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/video...Sdy4PkJNdZ03i4
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  5. -25
    Statler Waldorf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trojanma View Post
    It is only a non-sequitor if you don't understand the connection.
    Quote Originally Posted by trojanma View Post

    By being "pro-life" you champion yourself as the protector of innocent life.

    Well if you don't provide impoverished mothers with basic prenatal care you are sentencing twice as many fetuses to death(women without prenatal care have double the infant mortality rate). Even more to post birth morbidity and mortality. Probably about a million children a year are born to mothers who depend on Medicaid.
    43 million children use medicaid or CHIP for their healthcare.
    Essential vaccines, essential treatments. Are these children not innocents?

    If the government is not going to provide impoverished people with prenatal care, who is?


    You’re still making a logical leap there, you’re assuming just because Conservatives don’t want the Government to support the poor they therefore don’t want to support the poor. Private and religious charities support the poor far more effectively and efficiently than the government ever could.

    Your argument would equally apply to those in the pro-choice movement by the way; here they claim to support Medicaid because it helps save innocent human lives but then the support the systematic destruction of over 50 million innocent human lives over the past 40 years. How do you reconcile that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dovahkiin View Post
    I think we've deemed your posting on this forum unimportant and I wish someone would kill your acount. Who would have guessed that you would reply with such a dumb comment. I'm already here. Killing me is murder. I'm talking about worthless people who have no business having kids in the first place because the odds are stacked against them in the first place. Alot of people out there in this world can hardly be responsible enough in their minimum wage job in the fast food industry and we expect them to raise children to be successful? Nope. Sorry. Isn't happening. Nip it in the bud as they say. Or in the womb in this case here. Check out this video below and tell me that this world wouldn't be better off without these people in it. Look at the adults in this video and then watch how the kids act as a result. All of these kids should have been aborted so that they don't rob and kill when they get older. Poor children don't stand a chance in life. My kids attend private schools FWIW.


    1. How is a fetus not already “here”? Are you trying to suggest a fetus doesn’t exist?
    2. Why do you believe we should not kill someone who is already “here” as you put it? I thought you were for getting rid of worthless people…no?
    3. Does every child who is born into a poor family grow up to commit crimes? Are they all “worthless”? Please be specific.
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  6. -26
    trojanma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Statler Waldorf View Post


    Private and religious charities support the poor far more effectively and efficiently than the government ever could.
    Right now in the field of medicine that I work private charities(religious or otherwise) are BARELY keeping up with the massive demand and they act as adjuncts to the systems we ALREADY have in place.

    In the field of Pediatrics and Ob/Gyn there are many hospitals out there that draw the majority of patients from folks on Medicaid. A drastic cut in that support would be a catastrophe. You are talking about a multibillion dollar industry. You actually believe that this shortfall can and will be covered by charities!?!?! You live in a FANTASY land.
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  7. -27
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    Quote Originally Posted by trojanma View Post
    Right now in the field of medicine that I work private charities(religious or otherwise) are BARELY keeping up with the massive demand and they act as adjuncts to the systems we ALREADY have in place.

    In the field of Pediatrics and Ob/Gyn there are many hospitals out there that draw the majority of patients from folks on Medicaid. A drastic cut in that support would be a catastrophe. You are talking about a multibillion dollar industry. You actually believe that this shortfall can and will be covered by charities!?!?! You live in a FANTASY land.
    I audit a lot of non profits, and a good amount are actually funded primarily by the gov't. People assume that non profits are all independent of the gov't, which couldn't be further from the truth.
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  8. -28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Statler Waldorf View Post



    Problems with the above post…

    1. It assumes that making a distinction between innocent human life and the life of a capital murderer is just as arbitrary as valuing the convenience of the mother over the life of the baby. A person can certainly be consistently “pro-innocent life” by being against abortion and yet supporting capital punishment.
    One could almost accept this garbage from a non-religious person. But you have the cross so deep up yours that you don't even realize how much of a hypocrite you are.

    So a capital murderer is now being degraded below another life. Fine.
    But if you put two adults next to each other and one has done nothing wrong all his/her life, constantly helped others, gave all its energy and efforts to make this world a better place but hasn't adopted Jesus in his/her life is being ranked below a capital murderer who has accepted Jesus on his/her life. Suddenly a capital murderer is ranked above the innocent life.

    If you are pro-life you have to be pro-life across the board otherwise you are just selective pro-life based on your own morality driven by religion rather than common sense. And that makes you a hypocrite.
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  9. -29
    Statler Waldorf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trojanma View Post
    Right now in the field of medicine that I work private charities(religious or otherwise) are BARELY keeping up with the massive demand and they act as adjuncts to the systems we ALREADY have in place.


    Conservatives support charities far more than Liberals do, if the Liberals would stop trying to spend other people’s money and start donating some of their own to charities this wouldn’t be an issue. It doesn’t change the fact that charities are far more effective with the money they do get compared to the government and the amount of money it gets.

    In the field of Pediatrics and Ob/Gyn there are many hospitals out there that draw the majority of patients from folks on Medicaid. A drastic cut in that support would be a catastrophe. You are talking about a multibillion dollar industry. You actually believe that this shortfall can and will be covered by charities!?!?! You live in a FANTASY land.

    …so no one who was in poverty received medical treatment prior to the creation of Medicaid? Sounds like I am not the one living in a fantasy land here. Everyone knows that a private organization will utilize the money they donate to it far more efficiently and effectively than the same amount of money donated to the government. The government is slow and out of date.

    Quote Originally Posted by JackFinfan View Post
    I audit a lot of non profits, and a good amount are actually funded primarily by the gov't. People assume that non profits are all independent of the gov't, which couldn't be further from the truth.


    Well not all non-profits are charities, but it doesn’t change the fact that the money they do receive goes to far better use than it would with a giant bloated government entitlement program like Medicaid.

    Quote Originally Posted by phins_4_ever View Post
    One could almost accept this garbage from a non-religious person. But you have the cross so deep up yours that you don't even realize how much of a hypocrite you are.


    I really wish you’d keep things a bit more civil, but I guess I’ll have to just keep hoping.

    So a capital murderer is now being degraded below another life. Fine.


    No, a capital murderer through his own actions has forfeited his right to live by taking the life of another person (people).

    But if you put two adults next to each other and one has done nothing wrong all his/her life, constantly helped others, gave all its energy and efforts to make this world a better place but hasn't adopted Jesus in his/her life is being ranked below a capital murderer who has accepted Jesus on his/her life. Suddenly a capital murderer is ranked above the innocent life.


    Your misunderstanding of Christianity is nothing short of scary…

    1. No one chooses to do anything good in their life, so your first hypothetical person could never exist outside of your hypothetical, rendering your hypothetical meaningless.
    2. The capital murderer did not accept Jesus, rather God chose to save him by having His son atone for him and bringing him to faith through His spirit in spite of who he was. For this reason his coming to faith was not his own doing and therefore he has no right to boast for doing so.

    If you are pro-life you have to be pro-life across the board otherwise you are just selective pro-life based on your own morality driven by religion rather than common sense. And that makes you a hypocrite.


    1. Nope, a person can be pro-innocent life and still support capital punishment, a capital murder is not innocent.
    2. You are selectively pro-death, you support the death of babies in the womb but not the death of capital murderers, who’s a hypocrite now?
    3. Of course I ground my morality in my religion, Christianity being true is the only reason we can have morality that is meaningful.
    4. I am sure you believe morality is subjective, so even if that were the case you have no reason to object to me subjectively choosing to believe abortion is wrong and capital punishment is not. You’re hopelessly inconsistent.
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  10. -30
    El Scorcho's Avatar
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    All that matters in terms of abortion to me is that the mother should have complete control of what happens to her body.

    Nobody should be able to force the mother to do anything they don't want to.

    IMO while abortion is something that clearly nobody would want or have in an ideal world, the only time where i'd be totally against abortion is when the baby would be capable of living if a Caesarian was performed straight away. If a baby could survive outside of it's mother's womb, even with a lot of medical help (and that is the case pretty early these days with all the excellent technology we have these days) then an abortion is wrong.

    Other than that, you absolutely cannot take control of what the mother does with her body away from her.
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