Welcome to FinHeaven Fans Forums! We're glad to have you here. Please feel free to browse the forum. We'd like to invite you to join our community; doing so will enable you to view additional forums and post with our other members.



VIP Members don't see these ads. Join VIP Now
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 31 to 36 of 36

Thread: Article: So what if abortion ends a human life...

  1. -31
    trojanma's Avatar
    FinHeaven VIP

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Sep 2010
    Posts:
    1,620
    vCash:
    3898
    Loc:
    Magic City
    Thanks / No Thanks
    2013 Dolphins LogoTannehill 17Dolphins Homer
    Quote Originally Posted by Statler Waldorf View Post

    Conservatives support charities far more than Liberals do, if the Liberals would stop trying to spend other people’s money and start donating some of their own to charities this wouldn’t be an issue. It doesn’t change the fact that charities are far more effective with the money they do get compared to the government and the amount of money it gets.

    …so no one who was in poverty received medical treatment prior to the creation of Medicaid? Sounds like I am not the one living in a fantasy land here. Everyone knows that a private organization will utilize the money they donate to it far more efficiently and effectively than the same amount of money donated to the government. The government is slow and out of date.

    Well not all non-profits are charities, but it doesn’t change the fact that the money they do receive goes to far better use than it would with a giant bloated government entitlement program like Medicaid.
    Now we are getting into classic ultraconservative boilerplate that is mostly based on fallacy.

    Medicaid Budget 2012
    612 billion
    Total Money Given to Charities in 2009
    300 billion
    So if you collected every penny that people gave to Charities you would still be dramatically short. Not to mention I doubt that folks would be happy about all their money going to one place. Regardless that sounds a lot like taxation.
    Also these collections are spread out over thousands of different groups. How anyone would imagine collecting this to be used as some sort of functional block? It would be akin to mass chaos.

    In regards to your other point...
    ...the old argument. If we only went back to the good ol' days when you could pay a doctor with eggs or a pie, everything would be fine and dandy.

    Allow me to throw some facts at you.
    Infant Mortality
    1935- about 55 per 1000 births
    Now- about 7 per 1000 births
    A dramatic accomplishment that is in no small part to providing poor folks access to care.
    Now people made up for it by having about twice as many babies in those days. Of course this tied up women to essentially child production and rearing.

    Finally to your arguments about how charities/private firms are more efficient at delivering care to patients than the goverment is almost like a theological argument difficult to argue.

    But I will leave you with this.
    The US has socialized universal government run healthcare system. It is the VA.
    The RAND corporation did a study on comparing the costs of delivering healthcare in the VA vs. Private.
    THE VA WAS CHEAPER!

    http://www.rand.org/blog/2012/08/soc...om-the-va.html
    Quote Quote  

  2. -32
    GoFins!'s Avatar
    Starter

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Feb 2008
    Posts:
    492
    vCash:
    1096
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by Statler Waldorf View Post
    2. You are selectively pro-death, you support the death of babies in the womb but not the death of capital murderers
    I've never been able to understand the mindset that thinks nothing of killing (murdering?) 50,000,000 innocent humans (or potential humans) but does fret about each guilty person that is sentenced to death.
    “I’m somewhat disappointed that more African Americans don’t think for themselves and just go with whatever they’re supposed to say and think."


    - Dr. Benjamin Carson
    Quote Quote  

  3. -33
    GoFins!'s Avatar
    Starter

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Feb 2008
    Posts:
    492
    vCash:
    1096
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Why is it so hard for people to understand that it's not government services for the truly needy that others object to, but the waste, inefficiency and amount of money spent on those gaming the system?

    I would not be surprised if private charities could help 3 or 4 times as many people with $300,000,000,000 than the government helps with $612,000,000,000
    Quote Quote  

  4. -34
    JackFinfan's Avatar
    Starter

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Aug 2010
    Posts:
    466
    vCash:
    2432
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by GoFins! View Post
    Why is it so hard for people to understand that it's not government services for the truly needy that others object to, but the waste, inefficiency and amount of money spent on those gaming the system?

    I would not be surprised if private charities could help 3 or 4 times as many people with $300,000,000,000 than the government helps with $612,000,000,000
    I have news for you. Charities can get "gamed" just as much as the gov't. I actually know someone right now who is a getting a free $20,000 from a private charity for a down payment on their new home by lying about his income. That would be even more true if charities took over the responsibilities that the gov't currently handles. No one, dem or rep, is happy about waste, inefficiency, and people gaming the system. But anyone with business knowledge realizes that large operations naturally create waste and inefficiency. It's just a natural byproduct that we unfortunately have to deal with.

    The only reason why most private charities can run so efficiently is due to their small size. Burden them with the tasks of the gov't, give them $300,000,000,000, and they'll be just as inefficient as the gov't.
    Quote Quote  

  5. -35
    GoFins!'s Avatar
    Starter

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Feb 2008
    Posts:
    492
    vCash:
    1096
    Thanks / No Thanks
    One difference is that private charities will not force us to pay them more money next year to cover all the money they wasted this year.
    Quote Quote  

  6. -36
    Statler Waldorf's Avatar
    Bench Warmer

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Jun 2005
    Posts:
    1,259
    vCash:
    1246
    Loc:
    Oregon
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by El Scorcho View Post
    All that matters in terms of abortion to me is that the mother should have complete control of what happens to her body.


    I completely agree! Although that has nothing to do with abortion since the fetus is not part of the mother’s body.

    Nobody should be able to force the mother to do anything they don't want to.


    According to whom? If a mother wants to kill her child I am sorry but I am all for forcing her not to do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by trojanma View Post
    Now we are getting into classic ultraconservative boilerplate that is mostly based on fallacy.
    Quote Originally Posted by trojanma View Post

    Medicaid Budget 2012
    612 billion
    Total Money Given to Charities in 2009
    300 billion
    So if you collected every penny that people gave to Charities you would still be dramatically short. Not to mention I doubt that folks would be happy about all their money going to one place. Regardless that sounds a lot like taxation.
    Also these collections are spread out over thousands of different groups. How anyone would imagine collecting this to be used as some sort of functional block? It would be akin to mass chaos.


    I am not sure what you are even trying to say; I’d rather see that 612 billion go to charities or back into the economy so people can donate more to charities, they do better work.

    In regards to your other point...
    ...the old argument. If we only went back to the good ol' days when you could pay a doctor with eggs or a pie, everything would be fine and dandy.


    That was not my argument and you know it.

    Allow me to throw some facts at you.
    Infant Mortality
    1935- about 55 per 1000 births
    Now- about 7 per 1000 births


    Where is your proof that is due to Medicaid? I think it’s due to advancements in nutrition and medical science.

    A dramatic accomplishment that is in no small part to providing poor folks access to care.


    Proof? What was the mortality rate the year before Medicaid was instituted (1965 I believe) and the year after it was instituted (1967)? .

    Finally to your arguments about how charities/private firms are more efficient at delivering care to patients than the goverment is almost like a theological argument difficult to argue.

    But I will leave you with this.
    The US has socialized universal government run healthcare system. It is the VA.
    The RAND corporation did a study on comparing the costs of delivering healthcare in the VA vs. Private.
    THE VA WAS CHEAPER!

    http://www.rand.org/blog/2012/08/socialized-or-not-we-can-learn-from-the-va.html


    Of course the VA is cheaper; the quality of care is greatly inferior to that of private organizations. I know a man who had an infection in his leg, he went to the VA and they were going to amputate his leg. He got a second opinion from a private doctor and the doctor simply cured the infection and he’s fine now.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoFins! View Post
    One difference is that private charities will not force us to pay them more money next year to cover all the money they wasted this year.


    You nailed it, again. Private organizations have a vested interest in cracking down on waste, the government doesn’t, they will just demand more of our money next year to make up the lost ground. Government is the problem, not the solution.
    Total Depravity
    Unconditional Election
    Limited Atonement
    Irresistible Grace
    Perseverance of the Saints
    Quote Quote  

Similar Threads

  1. Great article on Ronnie and his approach to life and the game
    By hugoguzman in forum Miami Dolphins Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-12-2008, 11:55 AM
  2. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 08-16-2006, 02:31 PM
  3. U.S. to U.N.: Abortion Not a Human Right
    By BAMAPHIN 22 in forum Political | War Forum
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 03-10-2005, 12:25 AM
  4. Pro-life' Romney rankles anti-abortion activists
    By finataxia24 in forum Political | War Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-25-2005, 01:49 AM
  5. U.S. Ends Effort at U.N. to Ban All Human Cloning
    By finataxia24 in forum Political | War Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-19-2004, 10:29 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •