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Thread: A SERIOUS Question for Gun Control Proponents

  1. -11
    NamathDrunkLove's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Scorcho View Post
    Yes.

    It's a lot easier to commit a massacre with an assault rifle.

    In the 18 years leading up to the 1996 buyback of semiautomatic weapons in Australia, we had 13 massacre incidents with 4 deaths or more. Since 1996 we've had 0. Zero.

    Mental health is obviously really really really important and should be focussed on in these discussions, but there is really no good reason for an everyday citizen of a 1st world country to carry a gun or keep a gun in their home.

    If someone with mental health issues is having homicidal thoughts, I'd rather there not be a high magazine volume assault rifle anywhere he could get access to it. While the vast, vast majority of gun owners are responsible with their weapons, all it takes is one crazy guy and one automatic weapon to kill a lot of people very quickly.
    Narrow minded people often see it this way.

    ---------- Post added at 10:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:52 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by NY8123 View Post
    The atomic bomb that killed 250,000 to 400,000 citizens of Japan? Oops nope not that one, we just built a **** load more after that.
    The question was in regards to WWI not WWII.
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    MoFinz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Scorcho View Post
    Yes.

    It's a lot easier to commit a massacre with an assault rifle.
    In the 18 years leading up to the 1996 buyback of semiautomatic weapons in Australia, we had 13 massacre incidents with 4 deaths or more. Since 1996 we've had 0. Zero.

    Mental health is obviously really really really important and should be focussed on in these discussions, but there is really no good reason for an everyday citizen of a 1st world country to carry a gun or keep a gun in their home.

    If someone with mental health issues is having homicidal thoughts, I'd rather there not be a high magazine volume assault rifle anywhere he could get access to it. While the vast, vast majority of gun owners are responsible with their weapons, all it takes is one crazy guy and one automatic weapon to kill a lot of people very quickly.
    If that is true, how come Cho was able to murder more people at Va. Tech than any of the gunmen held up as poster children for assualt weapons bans. Are you aware he used a glock and a .22?

    Maybe you're more scared of the way a rifle looks than a gun. Maybe you have bought into the hype.....but handguns kill way more people every year than "assault weapons", so why the stigmatization?

    The main difference between the rifle i showed and the gun i showed, besides what was pointed out earlier, is the rifle is more accurate at a longer distance. In truth, it's bulk makes it more inefficient for the mass murders that have taken place, but perhaps the gunmen were going for style points over kill rate.

    As far as your assertion that there is no good reason for a 1st world citizen to keep a gun in their home, i'll say this. Until enlightened citizens like yourself can disarm criminals and stop rapes and violent assaults and home invasions, perhaps you should do as you please and allow law abiding citizens to defend their homes and families in whatever fashion they deem best.

    Or did Australian not carry the 2 stories of the 2 ladies recently who had children in the house when intruders crashed in. One lady with a rifle and one lady with a gun protected themselves and their children from criminals that invaded their homes. If your opinion had been fact, who knows what would have happened to the ladies and their children, but the fact is they protected themselves and their kids, because they had firearms and knew how to use them properly.


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  3. -13
    GoFins!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY8123 View Post
    The atomic bomb that killed 250,000 to 400,000 citizens of Japan?
    On the other hand, those bombs might have saved millions of lives.

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1708051/posts
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    GoFins!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Scorcho View Post
    In the 18 years leading up to the 1996 buyback of semiautomatic weapons in Australia, we had 13 massacre incidents with 4 deaths or more. Since 1996 we've had 0. Zero.
    Can you speak to this information? Thanks!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...CRLMTebo#t=91s


    Australia experiencing more violent crime despite gun ban
    Austin Gun Rights Examiner ^ | 8 April, 2009 | Howard Nemerov


    In a previous article, we examined the revisionist history of anti-rights proponents who claim that since Australia instituted their gun ban, there have been no mass murders, despite the recent “gun-free” massacre of 135 Australians.


    It is a common fantasy that gun bans make society safer. Peace Movement Aotearoa, based in New Zealand, calls itself a “national networking organization…interested in peace and social justice.” A fact sheet on their site is entitled Sharp Drop in Gun Crime Follows Tough Australian Firearm Laws. It’s very revealing that gun ban organizations validate gun control by focusing on gun-involved violence while avoiding any mention of overall violent crime trends.


    According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, there was a slight drop in the percent of murders committed with a firearm between 2001 and 2007 (16.0% and 13.4%, respectively). However, the percentage was highest in 2006 (16.3%) and remains higher than the low of 8.9% in 2005. There is no difference in the use of a firearm in robbery: Guns were used in 6.4% of all robberies in both 2001 and 2007.


    In 2002–five years after enacting its gun ban–the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime: “The percentage of homicides committed with a firearm continued its declining trend since 1969.”


    Even the head of Australia’s Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research, Don Weatherburn, acknowledged that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime: There has been a drop in firearm-related crime, particularly in homicide, but it began long before the new laws and has continued on afterwards. I don't think anyone really understands why. A lot of people assume that the tougher laws did it, but I would need more specific, convincing evidence …


    There has been a more specific … problem with handguns, which rose up quite rapidly and then declined. The decline appears to have more to do with the arrest of those responsible than the new laws. As soon as the heroin shortage hit, the armed robbery rate came down. I don't think it was anything to do with the tougher firearm laws.
    Weatherburn also acknowledged that the best crime measure consists of “the arrest of those responsible.”


    Moreover, Australia and America both experienced similar decreases in murder rates: Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9% decrease; without a gun ban, America’s rate dropped 31.7%.


    Now for the rest of the story


    During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2% and robbery 6.2%. Sexual assault–Australia’s equivalent term for rape–increased 29.9%. Overall, Australia’s violent crime rate rose 42.2%. At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8%: rape dropped 19.2%; robbery decreased 33.2%; aggravated assault dropped 32.2%. Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women (whom ABC reports are arming themselves at record rates because of safety concerns): More women, from soccer moms to professionals like the ones at the Blue Ridge Arsenal gun range in Chantilly, Va., are packing heat for sport, self-empowerment and protection.


    While this doesn’t prove that more guns would impact crime rates, it does prove that gun control is a flawed policy. Moreover, for groups like Peace Movement Aotearoa, it’s apparently social justice when more people are raped, robbed, and assaulted, as long as they cannot defend themselves with firearms. This highlights the most important point: Gun banners promote failed policy irregardless of the consequences to the people who must live with them.

    References
    Violent crime rates compiled from Australian Bureau of Statistics and U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation sources. Email request for Excel workbook.
    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2225517/posts
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    Bumpus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phinfan3411 View Post
    I cannot say for sure why everyone is so locked in on the AR/AK platform, especially if you were looking at it logically, why would you want to ban the class of weapons that seem to kill the least in the US? Your guess is as good as mine.

    Here is a little trivia that i'm pretty sure is true, as far as I know, there is only one of our firearms that was so deadly that one of our enemies campaigned to have outlawed during WWI, anyone want to guess which firearm?



    Hint, as far as I know the AR platform is certainly not in that class, nor was it around back then.
    I know what it is. In fact I own one.

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    MoFinz's Avatar
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    Bumpus....i just wanna say thanks for the directions to the polls. You have now, and forever my vote.

    I love you man.....



    Yes, i can be bought that cheaply folks....dont act surprised
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  7. -17
    Breed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NamathDrunkLove View Post
    Narrow minded people often see it this way.

    ---------- Post added at 10:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:52 AM ----------

    Critical thinking: It's impossible to come to a logical conclusion without it.
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  8. -18
    phinfan3411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bumpus View Post
    I know what it is. In fact I own one.

    Spoiler 

    Bumpus is 100% correct.

    As far as I know, the only time one of our adversaries went as far as trying to get one of our firearms outlawed, it was Germany during WWI and it was over the Winchester 1897 pump action "trench gun".

    Our military used to use this shotgun to clear trenches, and it was incredibly effective. They would line up, 5 or 6 in a row with the first one just blasting away. As soon as that soldier was out of ammo, he would crouch down and bolt to the back of the line to reload, with the next in line taking over.

    So the same basic weapon my Governor talks about having (pump action shotgun) as he outlaws all of the "really dangerous weapons" in my state...makes sense i guess?
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    MadDog 88's Avatar
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    Why are we focusing the discussion on massacres? Why not discuss the biggest issue with gun violence?
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoFins! View Post
    On the other hand, those bombs might have saved millions of lives.

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1708051/posts
    Because the threat of being ABLE to use deadly force makes people understand there will be consequences. Which is EXACTLY the reason that every time a pro gun laws are passed crime rates drop, and every time anti gun laws are passed crime rates rise.
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