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Thread: A SERIOUS Question for Gun Control Proponents

  1. -31
    MoFinz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tylerdolphin View Post


    Bahamas =/= Jamaica
    Theres a difference?

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  2. -32
    El Scorcho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoFinz View Post
    If that is true, how come Cho was able to murder more people at Va. Tech than any of the gunmen held up as poster children for assualt weapons bans. Are you aware he used a glock and a .22?

    Maybe you're more scared of the way a rifle looks than a gun. Maybe you have bought into the hype.....but handguns kill way more people every year than "assault weapons", so why the stigmatization?

    The main difference between the rifle i showed and the gun i showed, besides what was pointed out earlier, is the rifle is more accurate at a longer distance. In truth, it's bulk makes it more inefficient for the mass murders that have taken place, but perhaps the gunmen were going for style points over kill rate.

    As far as your assertion that there is no good reason for a 1st world citizen to keep a gun in their home, i'll say this. Until enlightened citizens like yourself can disarm criminals and stop rapes and violent assaults and home invasions, perhaps you should do as you please and allow law abiding citizens to defend their homes and families in whatever fashion they deem best.

    Or did Australian not carry the 2 stories of the 2 ladies recently who had children in the house when intruders crashed in. One lady with a rifle and one lady with a gun protected themselves and their children from criminals that invaded their homes. If your opinion had been fact, who knows what would have happened to the ladies and their children, but the fact is they protected themselves and their kids, because they had firearms and knew how to use them properly.
    I'll happily concede this point. On having a quick look I wasn't aware that the glock was semiautomatic. Yes that's arguably worse than the assault rifle because of how easily it can be concealed.

    I'd suggest that a semi-automatic weapons ban would be more useful than simply an assault weapons ban that as you've shown.

    As for the point with the two ladies and their kids, there are definitely cases where someone having a gun to defend themselves is great, but i'd love to see the stats on murders/rapes prevented by the defence of someone with a gun vs the increase in your murder and gun violence rates because of the easy access to guns. Generally if you can get a gun to defend yourself, then everyone out there who you wouldn't want to have a gun can get one as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoFins! View Post
    Oh wow look at the balanced and well researched article from the "Austin Gun Rights Examiner"

    It's totally meaningless anyway because you can't compare the stats in Australia to an Australia without gun control. Countries are too different to compare. Not to mention America still having a much, much higher murder rate regardless.

    What your stats do show is that people became considerably more violent in Australia over the period of time but the murder rate and gun violence continued to fall. Imagine what might have happened in lots of those assaults if people had easier access to guns.
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  3. -33
    Perfect23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bumpus View Post
    I know what it is. In fact I own one.
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    Yeah those are nice oh wait what was this thread about again
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  4. -34
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Scorcho View Post
    I'll happily concede this point. On having a quick look I wasn't aware that the glock was semiautomatic. Yes that's arguably worse than the assault rifle because of how easily it can be concealed.

    I'd suggest that a semi-automatic weapons ban would be more useful than simply an assault weapons ban that as you've shown.

    As for the point with the two ladies and their kids, there are definitely cases where someone having a gun to defend themselves is great, but i'd love to see the stats on murders/rapes prevented by the defence of someone with a gun vs the increase in your murder and gun violence rates because of the easy access to guns. Generally if you can get a gun to defend yourself, then everyone out there who you wouldn't want to have a gun can get one as well.

    So what you are saying is if there were tighter gun laws then those who wanted an illegal gun couldn't get one?? WOW you are so delusional. I could take a flight to the UK, land in London, with NO CONTACTS and have a gun in my hand within 6 hrs. 100%
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Scorcho View Post
    It's totally meaningless anyway because you can't compare the stats in Australia to an Australia without gun control. Countries are too different to compare. Not to mention America still having a much, much higher murder rate regardless.
    Your logic is so flawed it hurts my brain. The murder rate is NOT higher with those with LEGAL guns. As a matter of fact you are over 9000 times more likely to be killed by a doctor who makes a mistake in America, than someone with a LEGAL gun. Should we ban doctors?? What about cars. There is a much higher chance that you will be killed by a drunk driver than by either guns or doctors. So since some misuse cars and drive cars illegally does that mean all those that use cars correctly have to give up their cars because some use theirs incorrectly?? You don't restrict the innocent to protect and empower the guilty. All giving up guns accomplishes is to remove the guns from the innocent. Those who own guns illegally will certainly not turn in their guns, but now they know they can use their guns with impunity. That is why crime rates go up EVERY TIME there are gun bans. What are you missing?? This isn't hard.
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  6. -36
    MoFinz's Avatar
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    Pre-supposing a gun ban would stop gun violence is a laughable fairy tale. Because a bad guy can get a gun, we should tell good people they cant have one? Did your mom not let you have a cookie after she caught your brothers hand in the jar without asking? Of course not.

    People that obey the law have a RIGHT (you may want to look up that word) to defend themselves. You didn't know that a glock was a semi-automatic weapon until you looked it up. The glock and the AR as well as a .357 Magnum share a charcterisitic. They all shoot one bullet each time the trigger is pulled. Now then, what gives people like YOU the right to disarm law abiding peoples before you disarm the criminals? Nobody yet has explained that
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  7. -37
    MadDog 88's Avatar
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    It's unrealistic to think you will be able to disarm criminals therefore,you cant disarm people who want to protect themselves, their family and their home. The furthest you may get is banning sales at gunshows, records checks through a national data base and banning assault rifles that are easily modified.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadDog 88 View Post
    It's unrealistic to think you will be able to disarm criminals therefore,you cant disarm people who want to protect themselves, their family and their home. The furthest you may get is banning sales at gunshows, records checks through a national data base and banning assault rifles that are easily modified.
    But, but, but ...

    Then they won't get the warm & fuzzy feeling that they've "done something"

    After all, as we all know - criminals would definately respect a gun ban.
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    And as this is being debated a report of a workplace shooting in Glendale, Az. Every incident, though unfortunate, is going to be over amplified and used as propaganda.
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  10. -40
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Scorcho View Post
    Yes.

    It's a lot easier to commit a massacre with an assault rifle.

    In the 18 years leading up to the 1996 buyback of semiautomatic weapons in Australia, we had 13 massacre incidents with 4 deaths or more. Since 1996 we've had 0. Zero.

    Mental health is obviously really really really important and should be focussed on in these discussions, but there is really no good reason for an everyday citizen of a 1st world country to carry a gun or keep a gun in their home.

    If someone with mental health issues is having homicidal thoughts, I'd rather there not be a high magazine volume assault rifle anywhere he could get access to it. While the vast, vast majority of gun owners are responsible with their weapons, all it takes is one crazy guy and one automatic weapon to kill a lot of people very quickly.
    It has had very little impact on the overall totals in Australia, the article that you quoted in your post is flat out wrong information other than the amount of killings over 4 at a time. Facts and Figures for Australian gun related violence and death buy back years bolded:

    In Australia, annual homicides by any means total

    2010: 21716
    2009: 26116 17
    2008: 25116 18 17
    2007: 216
    2006: 256
    2005: 199
    2004: 164
    2003: 278
    2002: 291
    2001: 300
    1999/00: 30218 17
    1998/99: 327
    1997/98: 298
    1996/97: 299
    1995/96: 302
    1994/95: 326
    1993/94: 32318
    1992/93: 331
    1991/92: 313
    1990/91: 323
    1989/90: 307

    In Australia, annual firearm homicides total

    2010: 3016
    2009: 3616 17
    2008: 27
    2007: 28
    2006: 41
    2005: 1516 17 21
    2004: 1516 17
    2003: 5416 22 17
    2002: 45
    2001: 47
    2000: 5722 17
    1999: 50
    1998: 57
    1997: 79
    1996: 104
    1995: 67
    1994: 7622
    1993: 64
    1992: 96
    1991: 84
    1990: 79
    1989: 80
    1988: 123

    In Australia, annual suicides by any means total

    2010: 2,35923
    2009: 2,284
    2008: 2,340
    2007: 2,227
    2006: 2,118
    2005: 2,101
    2004: 2,098
    2003: 2,21323 22
    2002: 2,320
    2001: 2,454
    2000: 2,36322
    1999: 2,492
    1998: 2,683
    1997: 2,720
    1996: 2,393
    1995: 2,368
    1994: 2,258
    1993: 2,081
    1992: 2,294
    1991: 2,360
    1990: 2,161
    1989: 2,096
    1988: 2,197

    In Australia, annual firearm suicides total

    2010: 16223
    2009: 169
    2008: 183
    2007: 190
    2006: 181
    2005: 147
    2004: 167
    2003: 19323 22
    2002: 217
    2001: 261
    2000: 22222
    1999: 269
    1998: 235
    1997: 329
    1996: 382
    1995: 388
    1994: 420
    1993: 431
    1992: 488
    1991: 505
    1990: 486
    1989: 450
    1988: 521


    http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/australia
    Last edited by NY8123; 01-30-2013 at 05:14 PM.
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