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Thread: Chris Harper, Kansas State

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    bootang25's Avatar
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    Chris Harper, Kansas State

    The Fiesta Bowl was the third chance I got to see Chris Harper play for K-State, and in all 3 games he made plays. I also saw him against Baylor and West Virginia. I don't hear a lot of hype for the guy, but I think his size and surprising athleticism for a guy that big is very intriguing. I love that he is a pretty goods hand catcher, and is one tough SOB to bring to the ground. I noticed K-State used him a lot on drag routes, catching the ball and making people miss, either through moves, or brute force. His stiff arm is pretty good. I see most places have him slated in the 4th-5th round range, however, I think after the Senior Bowl and the Combine, he will move up the boards quite a bit.

    I think this guy is a major sleeper at the moment. His YAC ability because of his size, strength, and athleticism is something we should covet. Ryan Tannehill said one of the big things that helps him at the QB spot was his time at the WR position, having a broadened view of the passing game. Though Harper hardly played as a QB when at Oregon, and never got to play QB at K-State, his time at the position should have the same effect as far as his understanding of the timing and finer points of the passing game. As we stand today, I think a double down of Stedman Bailey and Chris Harper would be an amazing part of day 2 of the draft.

    I am curious as to what some of you guys think, I think he really got hurt a little by Collin Klein being a subpar passer. I think had Harper played with a higher echelon QB, he wouldn't be such a hidden gem. Many of the steals of the draft are guys like Harper, who for whatever reason have only begun to scratch the surface on their potential. I see a lot of Anquan Boldin qualities to his game.
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    i'm not a fan...at all...i think the senior bowl is where you're gonna see him struggle to get off coverage in one on ones...plenty of other wrs i'd much rather have
    hoops scoops 2012 season ..."in 2014 ryan tannehill etches his name in stone amongst the games elite qbs"..."ryan tannehill and andrew luck will carry the afc for the next decade plus the way peyton manning and tom brady have this last decade plus"
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    Tannehill 17
    I agree with hoops. I think after the seniorbowl, you'll be more inclined to start a thread about what dback your in love with as opposed to still talking about harper.
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    The biggest problem I see with Chris Harper is despite the 4.46 estimate of his 40 yard dash time which comes in behind only Marquise Goodwin, Tavon Austin, Denard Robinson, Markus Wheaton and Corey Fuller amongst top 25 senior receivers...he's not getting open a lot on the vertical. Or at least the separation closes up quickly with the ball in the air. But one reason for that is because Colin Klein doesn't really seem capable of hitting a vertical throw in stride. He underthrows everything to Harper and counts on him to come back to the ball and make something happen physically, which he often does. Or in some cases it's not even Colin Klein. As you saw in the Oregon game, Klein gave the ball to his halfback Pease, who had every intention of hitting Chris Harper on a deep ball. Harper ran his vertical against CB Troy Hill (4.51) and beat him vertically, but Pease was assailed in the backfield and had to make the guy miss before he could turn around and throw it, so the ball came WAY late, forcing Harper to come back to it, and giving Brian Jackson time to catch up and assault Harper in the face as he was trying to pull in the ball. But nonetheless when you watch CB Joe Williams of Baylor (4.52) easily keep up with Harper on a vertical route and then intercept a pass that gets underthrown to the inside, yeah you can blame the throw but the fact of the matter is Harper didn't create much of a window there.

    He's a big body and very strong, shows strong hands and the ability to make physically contested catches. There are some great examples of physically contested catches against the likes of Aaron Colvin of Oklahoma, Carrington Byndom of Texas, Quandre Diggs of Texas, Chance Casey of Baylor and Joe Williams of Baylor.

    The best part of his game though is his run after the catch, which he showed in the bowl game and he's been showing all year. You'll see his power after the catch as he stiff-arms people like Terrance Mitchell of Oregon and Adrian Phillips of Texas, or when he literally drags along like he's giving bus rides to the likes of Daytowion Lowe of Oklahoma State or both Elisha Olobode and Kevin White of TCU on the same play. He did the exact same thing dragging Baylor DE Chris McAllister (6'2" and 255 lbs) for an extra 7 yards and that was after Harper's momentum had already been stopped as he physically broke the would-be tackle attempt of Joe Williams on the play.

    But it's not just power because for a man that is 6'1" and 234 lbs you would not think he would be able to move the way he does. On one play in the Bowl game against Oregon, he gained 21 yards by making CB Ifo Ekpre-Olomu eat the dirt with a sweet move after the catch. On another play against Oregon he scooped to the inside after the catch and created some more yards, and then cut back to the outside again making Ifo Ekpre-Olomu once again jam up his gears and trip, and created a few more yards after catch.

    The speed and quick feet do show up in his ability to get open on comebacks, hitches and out routes. On the play against Ifo Ekpre-Olomu where he made him eat dirt, he gave himself that opportunity by creating the separation underneath needed to catch that ball and run with it. He also ran a hitch and created separation but for whatever reason Klein didn't want to throw it, so he tagged his route upward and then physically created more separation with his hands as Ifo Ekpre-Olomu adjusted to keep him up with him, then hitched again and created a window for Klein to throw to him. He created separation against Ifo and the other corners on Oregon several times throughout the day. He generally tore up Oklahoma State CB Brodrick Brown with that ability to create separation on comebacks, and created a lot of separation on comeback routes against Aaron Colvin, though the ball didn't come to him on those plays.

    I think a big problem for him is he plays in an offense that often forgets about the passing game, and he plays with a quarterback who often forgets about the perimeter and prefers to throw inside to slot receivers like Tyler Lockett. He'll go whole stretches of games where he's just a hood ornament, essentially. And because of that, he can get a little bit lax during some of these stretches. But then when his number is called, he lights up like a Christmas tree and looks quicker.

    He reminds me in some ways of Rishard Matthews whom the Dolphins just drafted last year in the 7th round. But I think he's physically stronger and makes more physically contested catches. The latter was one of the criticisms I had for Matthews, even though I liked him quite a bit. Matthews doesn't show very often the ability to come down with a ball in those 50/50 physically contested situations. That I think is one difference between Harper and Matthews.

    Chris Harper represents something that is missing from the Dolphins' offense. The Dolphins have the ability to create separation underneath like Harper does, but they don't do anything with physical strength. Brian Hartline is the opposite of strong and physical, and Davone Bess doesn't really fit that bill either, doing his damage more with just his quick feet. Essentially the Dolphins don't have a guy with James Jones' or a Jordy Nelson's physicality. Harper reminds me of a James Jones. But where James Jones is maddening for his ability to make physically challenged catches and then turn around and drop easy balls, I just haven't seen Harper drop many passes. Just one, in all the games I've watched.

    You probably won't have to go very high to get a Chris Harper unless he unexpectedly blows the doors off the Combine, but I think he'd be a good role player in a passing offense. To me he's like a version of Da'Rick Rogers that doesn't have the baggage.
    Last edited by ckparrothead; 01-05-2013 at 03:12 PM.
    Twitter: @ckparrot
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    Harper caught my eye in that game as well....looked like a shorter T.O.
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    I like him more everytime i see him.Good hands,solid routes and still learning the position.I wouldnt mind spending a 4th on him.
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    [QUOTE=ckparrothead;1064553361]

    He's a big body and very strong, shows strong hands and the ability to make physically contested catches.

    The best part of his game though is his run after the catch, which he showed in the bowl game and he's been showing all year.

    But it's not just power because for a man that is 6'1" and 234 lbs you would not think he would be able to move the way he does.

    The speed and quick feet do show up in his ability to get open on comebacks, hitches and out routes.

    He reminds me in some ways of Rishard Matthews whom the Dolphins just drafted last year in the 7th round. But I think he's physically stronger and makes more physically contested catches.

    Chris Harper represents something that is missing from the Dolphins' offense. The Dolphins have the ability to create separation underneath like Harper does, but they don't do anything with physical strength. Brian Hartline is the opposite of strong and physical, and Davone Bess doesn't really fit that bill either, doing his damage more with just his quick feet. Essentially the Dolphins don't have a guy with James Jones' or a Jordy Nelson's physicality. Harper reminds me of a James Jones. But where James Jones is maddening for his ability to make physically challenged catches and then turn around and drop easy balls, I just haven't seen Harper drop many passes. Just one, in all the games I've watched.

    CK,

    I agree with everything I quoted from your analysis. A big bodied, hands catcher, who has the ability to create once he has the ball in his hands. I don't care if he runs a 4.6 at the combine, I don't want him for 9 routes. Drags, slants, digs, hitches. A guy who I think if he had to be the focal point of the offense, his efficiency would drop. The Rishard Matthews comparison is on point, as I saw a lot of Matthews, and James Jones to him when watching.

    As stated, I want to pair Harper with Stedman Bailey on draft weekend. And I want Greg Jennings in FA. A 5 wide set of Jennings, Bailey, Harper, Matthews, and Bess presents all kinds of problems for defenses. The strength of the GB passing game is each player has his own role, and they all compliment each other very well. And because of the problems their WR's cause, you have guys like Tom Crabtree making plays. This is what I think Joe Philbin wants in his passing game. ARod completed balls to 10 different players vs the Vikings, and this is what we should want for Ryan Tannehill.
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    Thanks for all that CK, it is more to read on a 4th round guy that I have been able to get my hands on so much appreciated.

    I think he fits Philbin's kind of receiver. My perception is that he just needs to take it to the next level in a system he can flourish in. One thing I think Philbin/ireland will like is his eventual acceptance of moving to WR. Probably raw at LOS but his size/speed may make him a guy that is a very good 4th/5th guy who sneaks into a game in second half and makes a huge play.

    Senior bowl he certainly did not get talked up alot but did get good notes from Mayock and the other guy. As I recal they said he was a "very interesting prospect." I usually take that to mean he is a guy who was underlooked but could project nicely in the NFL level in a couple years.

    Terrence Williams
    Deandre Hopkins
    Aaron Dobson
    Ryan Swope
    Chris Harper

    All guys I could see in Philbin's air core based on size and receiver type.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ckparrothead View Post
    The biggest problem I see with Chris Harper is despite the 4.46 estimate of his 40 yard dash time which comes in behind only Marquise Goodwin, Tavon Austin, Denard Robinson, Markus Wheaton and Corey Fuller amongst top 25 senior receivers...he's not getting open a lot on the vertical. Or at least the separation closes up quickly with the ball in the air. But one reason for that is because Colin Klein doesn't really seem capable of hitting a vertical throw in stride. He underthrows everything to Harper and counts on him to come back to the ball and make something happen physically, which he often does. Or in some cases it's not even Colin Klein. As you saw in the Oregon game, Klein gave the ball to his halfback Pease, who had every intention of hitting Chris Harper on a deep ball. Harper ran his vertical against CB Troy Hill (4.51) and beat him vertically, but Pease was assailed in the backfield and had to make the guy miss before he could turn around and throw it, so the ball came WAY late, forcing Harper to come back to it, and giving Brian Jackson time to catch up and assault Harper in the face as he was trying to pull in the ball. But nonetheless when you watch CB Joe Williams of Baylor (4.52) easily keep up with Harper on a vertical route and then intercept a pass that gets underthrown to the inside, yeah you can blame the throw but the fact of the matter is Harper didn't create much of a window there.

    He's a big body and very strong, shows strong hands and the ability to make physically contested catches. There are some great examples of physically contested catches against the likes of Aaron Colvin of Oklahoma, Carrington Byndom of Texas, Quandre Diggs of Texas, Chance Casey of Baylor and Joe Williams of Baylor.

    The best part of his game though is his run after the catch, which he showed in the bowl game and he's been showing all year. You'll see his power after the catch as he stiff-arms people like Terrance Mitchell of Oregon and Adrian Phillips of Texas, or when he literally drags along like he's giving bus rides to the likes of Daytowion Lowe of Oklahoma State or both Elisha Olobode and Kevin White of TCU on the same play. He did the exact same thing dragging Baylor DE Chris McAllister (6'2" and 255 lbs) for an extra 7 yards and that was after Harper's momentum had already been stopped as he physically broke the would-be tackle attempt of Joe Williams on the play.

    But it's not just power because for a man that is 6'1" and 234 lbs you would not think he would be able to move the way he does. On one play in the Bowl game against Oregon, he gained 21 yards by making CB Ifo Ekpre-Olomu eat the dirt with a sweet move after the catch. On another play against Oregon he scooped to the inside after the catch and created some more yards, and then cut back to the outside again making Ifo Ekpre-Olomu once again jam up his gears and trip, and created a few more yards after catch.

    The speed and quick feet do show up in his ability to get open on comebacks, hitches and out routes. On the play against Ifo Ekpre-Olomu where he made him eat dirt, he gave himself that opportunity by creating the separation underneath needed to catch that ball and run with it. He also ran a hitch and created separation but for whatever reason Klein didn't want to throw it, so he tagged his route upward and then physically created more separation with his hands as Ifo Ekpre-Olomu adjusted to keep him up with him, then hitched again and created a window for Klein to throw to him. He created separation against Ifo and the other corners on Oregon several times throughout the day. He generally tore up Oklahoma State CB Brodrick Brown with that ability to create separation on comebacks, and created a lot of separation on comeback routes against Aaron Colvin, though the ball didn't come to him on those plays.

    I think a big problem for him is he plays in an offense that often forgets about the passing game, and he plays with a quarterback who often forgets about the perimeter and prefers to throw inside to slot receivers like Tyler Lockett. He'll go whole stretches of games where he's just a hood ornament, essentially. And because of that, he can get a little bit lax during some of these stretches. But then when his number is called, he lights up like a Christmas tree and looks quicker.

    He reminds me in some ways of Rishard Matthews whom the Dolphins just drafted last year in the 7th round. But I think he's physically stronger and makes more physically contested catches. The latter was one of the criticisms I had for Matthews, even though I liked him quite a bit. Matthews doesn't show very often the ability to come down with a ball in those 50/50 physically contested situations. That I think is one difference between Harper and Matthews.

    Chris Harper represents something that is missing from the Dolphins' offense. The Dolphins have the ability to create separation underneath like Harper does, but they don't do anything with physical strength. Brian Hartline is the opposite of strong and physical, and Davone Bess doesn't really fit that bill either, doing his damage more with just his quick feet. Essentially the Dolphins don't have a guy with James Jones' or a Jordy Nelson's physicality. Harper reminds me of a James Jones. But where James Jones is maddening for his ability to make physically challenged catches and then turn around and drop easy balls, I just haven't seen Harper drop many passes. Just one, in all the games I've watched.

    You probably won't have to go very high to get a Chris Harper unless he unexpectedly blows the doors off the Combine, but I think he'd be a good role player in a passing offense. To me he's like a version of Da'Rick Rogers that doesn't have the baggage.
    I see Rodgers as a better athlete. Rodgers gets in and out of his breaks MUCH better to my eyes. Once Harper is going, he moves OK, but I don't think he separates well at all. If the D plays off, he can catch slants all day, because he can box-out the defender, but he didn't get any separation in the 1-on-1's during Senior Bowl Week, and that is pretty consistent with what I saw from him during the 2012 season. Rodgers also has about two inches on Harper. As a player, I see Rodgers as closer to K. Allen than C. Harper. The baggage will see him fall.
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    i'd say harper showed at the senior bowl about like i expected...like the rac and physical play but don't like the lack of suddenness lack of burst and inability to separate...if i have the choice of bog body guys that don't separate all that much i'd prefer dobson...

    but anytime you get guys with skill sets like this it's dicey stuff...
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