Mike Wallace and Greg Jennings the football equivalent of Lebron James and Chris Bosh?
Mike Wallace and Greg Jennings the football equivalent of Lebron James and Chris Bosh?
You create cap space. Instead of constantly trying to "contend", you sacrifice 1 year (as Ireland just did), lose Brandon Marshall an Vontae Davis, so that you have cap space the next year. You know that if you get aggressive, and have a promising team, that elite players will choose Miami over other destinations, perhaps even for less money, because of our lack of state income tax. You use this to your advantage. So you make a splash, and you sign Mike Wallace and Greg Jennings, which in addition to creating excitement, makes football sense, as it allows you to use draft picks and remaining money on other positions, and not draft WRs who might or might not pan out. Ed Reed, Tony Gonzalez..guys like that start seeing the Dolphins as attractive, bc they see 1-a chance to finish their careers in warm, beautiful Miami and 2-play for a team on the rise..similar to Ray Allen and Mike Miller. You usher in this new era of Dolphins football on an exciting note. THAT is the parallell with the Heat and Riley i was drawing. Not Lebron Wade and Bosh...but the creation of cap space and using Miami as a recruiting tool if you just sacrifice a season and follow it up by creating some excitement down here.
1. Trading Vontae Davis didn't create a lick of cap space. He was set to cost us like a million bucks this year. Pittance. Tying him into this theory is folly.
2. Signing Mike Wallace and Greg Jennings doesn't open any kind of flood gates whatsoever on free agents thinking they suddenly need to play for the Miami Dolphins because Mike Wallace and Greg Jennings are there. You keep saying you're not calling them the equivalent of Lebron and Bosh but you ARE. Players want to play for the Heat because they know Lebron, Bosh and Wade are there and that with those three players alone you're going to contend for championships. You think signing Mike Wallace and Greg Jennings will have anywhere even CLOSE to that effect?
3. All of the things that you talked about with respect to taxes, sunshine, etc making Miami an attractive destination...are already in effect. They'll be factors whether Jennings and Wallace come here or not. So they really have nothing to do with your theory.
4. The "attractiveness" factor really only applies to free agents anyway and there's some evidence that a steady inflow of free agents doesn't do you any good in salary cap football anyway.
This theory is all kinds of wrong, IMO. The only reason you sign Jennings and Wallace is if it makes sense to you from a football standpoint. And maybe it does. Who knows. It depends on your evaluation of the individual players.
1- Vontae Davis was deemed not part of our future and would be a free agent after this year, so they traded him for a future 2nd and 5th, or whatever. That's trading the now for the future.
2- Yes, i do. I think the Miami Dolphins signing Mike Wallace and Greg Jennings would put the league on notice, and I think free agents would look at Miami as much more desirable bc of the reasons listed above, bc we now have exciting weapons, and bc we have a defense that is stout.
3- You're right. Miami has always been an attractive destination for players. But players have known we weren't legit contenders for years now. This would change that.
4- I agree in part with this. Your argument has merit. Free agency isn't the answer...i agree with that. But at skill positions, with Ireland's track record in re: skill positions, i much rather pay more for proven guys than draft a WR in the first or second round (a 2nd can still be spent on a Tavon Austin in my scenario anyways). Add in the fact that we'd still have near 20 million in cap space, and there is no good reason not to acquire guys that have done it in the league.
If we were to sign Wallace & Jennings, i'd even advocate trading up in the draft to try and secure a Bjorn Werner or Dee Milliner. We would have much more room to maneuver knowing that the WR positions are set.
Grossly overestimated effect, IMO. Agree to disagree.2- Yes, i do. I think the Miami Dolphins signing Mike Wallace and Greg Jennings would put the league on notice, and I think free agents would look at Miami as much more desirable bc of the reasons listed above, bc we now have exciting weapons, and bc we have a defense that is stout.
Wins are the only thing that will change that.3- You're right. Miami has always been an attractive destination for players. But players have known we weren't legit contenders for years now. This would change that.
I think people commonly over-estimate the return on investment in free agency because of this persistent but misguided concept of buying "proven" players. Nothing is ever proven where it concerns predicting the future.4- I agree in part with this. Your argument has merit. Free agency isn't the answer...i agree with that. But at skill positions, with Ireland's track record in re: skill positions, i much rather pay more for proven guys than draft a WR in the first or second round (a 2nd can still be spent on a Tavon Austin in my scenario anyways). Add in the fact that we'd still have near 20 million in cap space, and there is no good reason not to acquire guys that have done it in the league.
Return on investment for free agent receivers surprisingly matches the return on investment for draft picks at the position.
Yeah sometimes you have Vincent Jacksons and Anquan Boldins...successful free agent pickups. But you've also got Robert Meachems, Laurent Robinsons, Brandon Gibsons, etc.
Here is a list of free agent transactions from 2008 to 2012, broken up by success. These do not count trades or cuts. These are expiring contracts.
Wastes of Time & Resources
2008: Sam Aiken from Buffalo to New England
2008: Bernard Berrian from Chicago to Minnesota
2008: Marty Booker from Miami to Chicago
2008: Bryant Johnson from Arizona to San Francisco
2008: Eddie Kennison from Kansas City to St. Louis
2008: Ashley Lelie from San Francisco to Oakland
2008: Brandon Lloyd from Washington to Chicago
2008: Justin McCareins from New York Jets to Tennessee
2008: Jerry Porter from Oakland to Jacksonville
2008: Koren Robinson from Green Bay to Seattle
2008: Donte Stallworth from New England to Cleveland
2008: Javon Walker from Denver to Oakland
2009: Hank Baskett from Philadelphia to Indianapolis
2009: Laveranues Coles from New York Jets to Cincinnati
2009: Mike Furrey from Detroit to Cleveland
2009: Joey Galloway from Tampa Bay to Pittsburgh
2009: Torry Holt from St. Louis to Jacksonville
2009: T.J. Houshmandzadeh from Cincinnati to Seattle
2009: Bryant Johnson from San Francisco to Detroit
2009: Terrell Owens from Dallas to Buffalo
2009: Kelley Washington from New England to Baltimore
2009: Roydell Williams from Tennessee to Washington
2010: Arnaz Battle from San Francisco to Pittsburgh
2010: Antonio Bryant from Tampa Bay to Cincinnati
2010: Nate Burleson from Seattle to Detroit
2010: Mike Furrey from Cleveland to Washington
2010: Joey Galloway from Pittsburgh to Washington
2010: Jason Hill from San Francisco to Jacksonville
2010: T.J. Houshmandzadeh from Seattle to Baltimore
2010: Matt Jones from Jacksonville to Cincinnati
2010: Randy Moss from Minnesota to Tennessee
2010: Antwaan Randle El from Washington to Pittsburgh
2010: Josh Reed from Buffalo to San Diego
2010: Devin Thomas from Carolina to New York Giants
2010: Jerheme Urban from Arizona to Kansas City
2010: Bobby Wade from Kansas City to Washington
2010: Demetrius Williams from Baltimore to Cleveland
2011: Seyi Ajirotutu from San Diego to Carolina
2011: Devin Aromashodu from Chicago to Minnesota
2011: Donnie Avery from St. Louis to Tennessee
2011: Steve Breaston from Arizona to Kansas City
2011: Plaxico Burress from New York Giants to New York Jets
2011: Jericho Cotchery from New York Jets to Pittsburgh Steelers
2011: Craig "Buster" Davis from San Diego to Buffalo
2011: Braylon Edwards from New York Jets to San Francisco
2011: James Hardy from Buffalo to Baltimore
2011: Johnnie Lee Higgins from Oakland to Philadelphia
2011: T.J. Houshmandzadeh from Baltimore to Oakland
2011: Michael Jenkins from Atlanta to Minnesota
2011: Bryant Johnson from Detroit to Houston
2011: Sinorice Moss from New York Giants to Philadelphia
2011: Legedu Naanee from San Diego to Carolina
2011: Taylor Price from New England to Jacksonville
2011: Mike Sims-Walker from St. Louis to Jacksonville
2011: Brad Smith from New York Jets to Buffalo
2011: Steve E. Smith from New York Giants to Philadelphia
2011: Brandon Tate from New England to Cincinnati
2011: Roy Williams from Dallas to Chicago
2012: Seyi Ajirotutu from Carolina to San Diego
2012: Plaxico Burress from New York Jets to Pittsburgh
2012: Andre Caldwell from Cincinnati to Denver
2012: Braylon Edwards from San Francisco to Seattle
2012: Braylon Edwards from Seattle to New York Jets
2012: Clyde Gates from Miami to New York Jets
2012: Robert Meachem from New Orleans to San Diego
2012: Carlton Mitchell from Cleveland to Jacksonville
2012: Josh Morgan from San Francisco to Jacksonville
2012: Laurent Robinson from Dallas to Jacksonville
2012: Brian Robiskie from Jacksonville to Detroit
2012: Eddie Royal from Denver to San Diego
2012: Greg Salas from New England to Philadelphia
2012: Dane Sanzenbacher from Chicago to Cincinnati
2012: Chaz Schilens from Oakland to New York Jets
2012: Jordan Shipley from Tampa Bay to Jacksonville
2012: Jerome Simpson from Cincinnati to Minnesota
2012: Steve E. Smith from Philadelphis to St. Louis
2012: Mike Thomas from Jacksonville to Detroit
Mixed Success Relative to Price
2008: Isaac Bruce from St. Louis to San Francisco
2008: Antonio Bryant from Dallas to Tampa Bay
2008: Muhsin Muhammad from Chicago to Carolina
2009: Jabar Gaffney from New England to Denver
2009: Brandon Lloyd from Chicago to Denver
2010: Terrell Owens from Buffalo to Cincinnati
2011: Sidney Rice from Minnesota to Seattle
2012: Danario Alexander from St. Louis to San Diego
2012: Donnie Avery from Tennessee to Indianapolis
2012: Pierre Garcon from Indianapolis to Washington
2012: Trindon Holliday from Houston to Denver
2012: Jacoby Jones from Houston to Baltimore
2012: Brandon Lloyd from St. Louis to New England
2012: Mario Manningham from New York Giants to San Francisco
2012: Brandon Stokley from New York Giants to Denver Broncos
Undeniably Successful Signings
2009: Nate Washington from Pittsburgh to Tennessee
2012: Vincent Jackson from San Diego to Tampa Bay
Regarding your comment that Vontae doesn't fit the analogy... Michael Beasley.
And regarding your comment that "only wins can change that"...I agree. But we aren't coming off a winning season, so the only way to prove to free agents now that we are serious is to spend and acquire high end talent. The league respects the Dolphins defense. Lets get the offense some studs seeing as 1- we can afford to and 2- we can use our draft picks for guys who are less likely to be "misses", like a 6'6" defensive end or a cornerback that was able to shut things down in the SEC. I love what I see from Cordarelle Patterson and Keenan Allen. I just trust Mike Wallace and Greg Jennings to continue their success in the league more than I trust Patterson and Allen to translate to the NFL.
There IS NO way for us to achieve the effect you desire. You do it by establishing a pattern of winning, or you don't do it. Period. You've either already got the juice, or you don't. You're not going to get it all of a sudden by paying up for two free agent wide receivers.
Would probably have the exact opposite effect as a matter of fact. Look at Washington. They built a reputation based on free agent activities and not based on their winning record. Did free agents try to go to Washington because of that? You bet. TO GET PAID. They looked at Washington like a broken ATM machine. None of them came even close to offering Washington below-market deals to play there.
There is no parallel to nba . That league is a mess with teams throwing seasons just to get cap space. Definately needs to be fixed. There is no building of teams for most part in nba its all about free agency and some cities have no chance to compete for free agents
When Death Smiles Upon You the Infantryman smiles back
WVdolphan "Ireland gets it.
And those who also get it, know that Ireland gets it. Those who are clueless are still concerned about cornfed and the running game"
WVDOLPHAN "The last thing this team should be worried about is the OC(offensive corn). When you add it all up, its really a pretty solid OC"
You guys can debate the theory all day but all I care about is are signing both of them going to help our team? I think so Wallace and Jennings are both very good players who are worth the money. Tannehill will have reliable weapons and we would still have money to resign randy Starks and Clemons then Address corner.
The next Miami RB