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Thread: Rubio’s ‘Watershed’ Means He’s Ready (or Not) for National Spotlight

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    Re: Rubio’s ‘Watershed’ Means He’s Ready (or Not) for National Spotlight

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWalrus View Post
    There's no link between having a nice sounding resume and being a good president. None. Take the 20th century, since you don't seem to like the 19th. Teddy Roosevelt had only been Governor for one year before becoming Vice President. Eisenhower had never been elected to anything. FDR had only been Governor for three years.

    Richard Nixon, on the other hand, had been a congressman, senator and vice president.

    There are good presidents with good resumes and bad ones. Same with short resumes. It's just not a statistically relevant variable. If and when Marco Rubio runs for president, it's not something that will factor negatively in how I view him.
    Just an fyi, up until Watergate, Nixon was a pretty darned good president. He just ended up with a very tarnished reputation. Watergate probably wouldn't even make the news today much less get someone to resign. Also, FDR sucked for the most part. Just my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    Just an fyi, up until Watergate, Nixon was a pretty darned good president. He just ended up with a very tarnished reputation. Watergate probably wouldn't even make the news today much less get someone to resign. Also, FDR sucked for the most part. Just my opinion.

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    I'm surprised to hear you voice your support for the Clean Air Act, the EPA, affirmative action quotas, OSHA and the alternative minimum tax. All supported by Nixon and passed during his presidency. He also proposed a health care reform that would have required "employers to buy health insurance for their employees and subsidize those who couldn’t afford it." That's a more liberal solution to health care than Obamacare.

    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/...great-liberal/

    Or were you just talking about liking the part of Nixon's presidency where he bombed Cambodia?
    Last edited by TheWalrus; 02-14-2013 at 12:50 PM.
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    Re: Rubio’s ‘Watershed’ Means He’s Ready (or Not) for National Spotlight

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWalrus View Post
    I'm surprised to hear you voice your support for the Clean Air Act, the EPA, affirmative action quotas, OSHA and the alternative minimum tax. All supported by Nixon and passed during his presidency. He also proposed a health care reform that would have required "employers to buy health insurance for their employees and subsidize those who couldn’t afford it." That's a more liberal solution to health care than Obamacare.

    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/...great-liberal/

    Or were you just talking about liking the part of Nixon's presidency where he bombed Cambodia?
    I would have bombed Cambodia to the stone age but that is another discussion. In the circumstances he faced, I don't have too much of a problem with any of the programs that you mentioned when kept in proper perspective. The problem with them now is that they have swollen out of control and their benefits are far outweighed by their cost fiscally and to businesses.

    I am an avid outdoorsman so protecting the environment is important to me. I don't believe all of Al Gore's bull crap but I believe in setting reasonable and practical regulations. However, the EPA has gone nuts and Global Warming is largely BS! I would like to see an EPA that helps the states enforce regulations already on the books rather than being a bureaucratic nightmare money pit.

    Affirmative action served its purpose although it is not something I would have supported. A lot of great accomplishments by minorities were minimized because people attributed their success to affirmative action rather than brains and hard work. Consequently, many qualified white men did not get jobs they deserved because they were white men. Dissension still exists because the normal social evolution was short circuited.

    You know I am not big on requiring companies to provide anything to employees except what they agree to in their work agreement. Both sides negotiate and live up to that agreement. If companies don't provide insurance, they will not be attractive places to work and will ultimately have lower quality workers. Ultimately, it did facilitate more workers being covered by group health insurance (good) but led to the expectation that everyone had the right to health insurance (bad). I suppose I can forgive him for this one but I really don't like it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    A lot of great accomplishments by minorities were minimized because people attributed their success to affirmative action rather than brains and hard work.
    I'd be interested in any examples you could provide.
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    Re: Rubio’s ‘Watershed’ Means He’s Ready (or Not) for National Spotlight

    Quote Originally Posted by GoFins! View Post
    I'd be interested in any examples you could provide.
    This is an observation and not necessarily something I read or documented. Mostly just things I saw and heard of as a kid and young adult where people attributed the success of a black person, a woman, or such to affirmative action and not to their inherent success. I could probably find something concrete but don't have anything off hand. I also have observed as a manager that SOME whites became complacent because they had an excuse and SOME minorities became lazy because they felt untouchable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoFins! View Post
    I'd be interested in any examples you could provide.
    I found this article which addresses some of what I spoke of from a psychological perspective.

    http://www.siop.org/AfirmAct/siopsaartarg.aspx
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    This is an observation and not necessarily something I read or documented. Mostly just things I saw and heard of as a kid and young adult where people attributed the success of a black person, a woman, or such to affirmative action and not to their inherent success. I could probably find something concrete but don't have anything off hand.
    No problem. I was just wondering.

    From my experience, when a person succeeds no one cares how he got there.

    It's when a less qualified person is promoted over other more qualified people and then fails that people bring up Affirmative Action, nepotism, etc.

    Affirmative Action creates an opportunity, but success or failure is up to the individual.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    I also have observed as a manager that SOME whites became complacent because they had an excuse...
    I'm not sure what this means. What excuse?
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    Re: Rubio’s ‘Watershed’ Means He’s Ready (or Not) for National Spotlight

    Quote Originally Posted by GoFins! View Post
    No problem. I was just wondering.

    From my experience, when a person succeeds no one cares how he got there.

    It's when a less qualified person is promoted over other more qualified people and then fails that people bring up Affirmative Action, nepotism, etc.

    Affirmative Action creates an opportunity, but success or failure is up to the individual.

    I'm not sure what this means. What excuse?
    The excuse is they (white males) won't be promoted our weren't promoted because of affirmative action so why try. Mind you that this isn't everyone, just a portion of the population buy significant nonetheless.

    You are correct about people highlighting affirmative action when the promoted person fails. I just have more memories of conversations pertaining to individuals still in the midst of their job where ultimate success or failure had not been determined. The success I alluded to was getting the position in the first place and actually proving competent...sorry I didn't clarify.

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