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Thread: One thought on Hartline....

  1. -31
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    Totally agree dcnr226, no one argues Hartlines merit, its just for the dolphins he is not worth 6 million dollars, better spent on two rookies with potential.......
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    fanfin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dolp1972 View Post
    Totally agree dcnr226, no one argues Hartlines merit, its just for the dolphins he is not worth 6 million dollars, better spent on two rookies with potential.......
    If you were trying to sell something would you start with the price you wanted to sell? or would you start high and work your way down? simple negotiating 101. No one is going to pay him 6 a year.. I expect his cap number to be a lot closer to 4
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    Quote Originally Posted by enigmatics View Post
    Marshall WAS the offense. They forced the ball to him, especially in the red zone.
    Right. And last season, Hartline WAS the passing offense to a large degree and he still couldn't score but one time. My point: how does what technically would be a demotion to the #2 WR spot make him MORE likely to reach the end zone more? Sorry, but it can't be both ways. If you want to use the "he'll be going against worse CBs" argument, it goes back to why he couldn't score opposite Marshall. He'll never again have the amount of balls thrown his way that he did last season.
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  4. -34
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterNorth View Post
    Right. And last season, Hartline WAS the passing offense to a large degree and he still couldn't score but one time. My point: how does what technically would be a demotion to the #2 WR spot make him MORE likely to reach the end zone more? Sorry, but it can't be both ways. If you want to use the "he'll be going against worse CBs" argument, it goes back to why he couldn't score opposite Marshall. He'll never again have the amount of balls thrown his way that he did last season.
    I didn't bring up Jordy Nelson because they are both white, I bring him up because it shows there is clearly a learning curve in learning the WR position, I would guess that very few WRs put up gaudy TD numbers in their first 3 years. Hartline clearly took a step up and was a better player in year 4 and that was with a rookie QB and very little in terms of supporting cast.

    I'm not saying he'll ever be as good as Nelson, what I'm saying is using TD numbers from any WRs first 3 seasons is not a valid argument for labeling a player a bust.
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  5. -35
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    Quote Originally Posted by AFCMiamiEast View Post
    I do not understand your animosity to a player who came into training camp 23 pounds underweight from severe surgery (he had an interview about his experience that would send chills down your spine), and busted his ass off to get back into shape and amount to over 1,000 yards under an entirely new offense, head coach, offensive coordinator, and quarterback. If you are in favor of letting him test free agency, feel free to express it...but the way you trash him like he is some underachieving crack baby bum is a tad distasteful.
    I dont have animosity torward hartline i just dont understand how some poeple on here build him up and talk about him like he is that good and worth keeping. Look at the facts... the guy cant get in the endzone. He didnt do it with a #1 WR here and he didnt do it when he was the #1 wr... its not like im hoping the guy gets injured or anything i just dont want him back on the team especially for that price he wants. It feels like some people on here want to be a mediocre team forever instead at looking to improve the team buy getting rid of guys like hartline and smith and fasano who r just average or slightly below average guys and hoping this team becomes a winner. Im sure hes a nice guy i have never meet him but as a football player and starting wr i think hes meh and would like to see him play a nice 8-10 year career somewhere else.
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    Quote Originally Posted by roy_miami View Post
    Didn't Hartline have a record breaking day for not just him but any Miami Dolphin WR against the Cardinals?
    He said Peterson and Cromartie. I gave Hartline's two-game stats against Cromartie. He did not win that match up.
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    Hartline has the worst balance of any starting WR his size that I can remember. He's good route runner, and he does some things well. But his balance will always prevent him from accumulating YAC, high-pointing the ball, not falling at random, embarrassing times to fall. All kidding aside, you can't be explosive if you're always falling down!

    Jerry Rice had the best balance of any WR I've ever seen. There are some WR's in this draft class with really good balance - especially next to Hartline. We want to be explosive at that position, don't we? I feel like everyone has been begging for it. Hartline is among the least explosive WR's in the NFL. That's not to say that he completely sucks. He works hard and smart to get open. I have a lot of respect for how he's maximizing his talents, but I care about the Dolphins more than I do his personal story. Bess can be our resident yard-stick mover. Everyone else can be explosive - in one way or another.
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    Quote Originally Posted by roy_miami View Post
    I didn't bring up Jordy Nelson because they are both white, I bring him up because it shows there is clearly a learning curve in learning the WR position, I would guess that very few WRs put up gaudy TD numbers in their first 3 years. Hartline clearly took a step up and was a better player in year 4 and that was with a rookie QB and very little in terms of supporting cast.

    I'm not saying he'll ever be as good as Nelson, what I'm saying is using TD numbers from any WRs first 3 seasons is not a valid argument for labeling a player a bust.
    First of all, I certainly did not label Hartline a bust, nor have I ever. He was a 4th round pick, for starters, which means bust was off the table almost immediately. What I have said is that he is a nice player to have but not a playmaker and not someone who should be paid like a low level #1 receiver just because he happened to be the default #1 last season and produced a lot of catches and yards due to being the best of a bunch of lousy options.

    I agree that there is usually a learning curve with young receivers. However, there is also usually a clear progression that you can see. I can't honestly say I have seen that with Hartline. I'm not going to go nuts over the gaudy catch and yardage totals last year, because, as I said before, he was the de facto top option and was guaranteed to have a ton of balls thrown his way. The guy will never have RAC ability, he has shown a tendency to be allergic to the end zone, and he will almost surely see his number of targets significantly reduced as they upgrade the WR corps.

    Does he have value to the team? Absolutely. Is he worth 5 million or thereabouts? Hell no, I say. We don't need two stick-mover types. Not if you want the offense to dramatically improve. Bess is enough.
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