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Thread: Schein thinks the Bills will be this year's Cinderella

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    Schein thinks the Bills will be this year's Cinderella

    I'm not sure how anyone can put up even the smallest defense that revolves around Sanchise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    The Jets sched was tougher.

    Week 17 was meaningless, if they won in week 16 they would have made it. He threw 4 INts and they got smoked.

    You win the required amount of games in any given season to make it, Miami had control of their destiny facing 3 non playoff teams to end 2009- they lost all 3 including 2 at home. Houston could have beaten us at home week 1 and they would have made, we got a break(a slight break) and we took advantage like good tams do.

    Mark had ONE fumble lost in 2010

    8 and 11 are close, right?

    Eli also contributed a lot more to their losses in 2010 while he was in year 7 vs. a ROOKIE buttfumble in 2009.

    who cares about the total #s? it's about what they did in critical situations and I already blew up that silly comeback stat for Eli, he had 2 good ones and one only happened b/c of an atrocious call.

    The 2 most impressive comeback wins belong to mark in that list.

    Ok, they got good FP on that possession. Eli led NYG to 10 pts 2nd half/ot at SF, all 10 pts were a direct result of TOs that set them up deep in SF territory but that's ok?

    he didn't put up 37 pts b/c he didn't have a 5 yd pass turned itno a 66 yarder or a completed Hail mary. he also didn't get 4 TOs from their opponent.

    In 6 postseason games we have forced a total of 8 TOs, in that one GB game the Giants got FOUR TOs. In their 8 postseason games in their SB run they forced 14 TOs. do you think that helps?

    show me the garbage time points? he's terrible in garbage time. I will bet Eli had better #s in garbage time. Show actual examples instead of cumulative stats w/o context.

    Eli is a 2 time SB MVP that didn't earn either one of those awards, mark would be doing similar things and would have 2 SBs if he played w/ the Giants in those years or had the immense talent to throw to that Eli has always had. When Mark had good talent he helped us to 2 title games, Eli couldn't even make the playoffs 3 of the last 4 years w/ that talent.


    Garbage time TDs:

    Mark 2010:
    MAYBE a TD in the Buf game though it was thrown in the 3rd qtr to put us up 31-7.
    well call it 1 TD in garbage time in 2010

    Eli 2010:
    TD late in 38-14 loss to Indy
    TD late in 34-10 win at Hou
    if we call the buttfumble TD garbage time against Buf we'd need to call a TD to put NYg up 35-0 at Sea garbage time
    TD trailing 33-13 vs. Dal

    4 garbage time TDs for Eli, 1 for Mark. 4 is more than 1, right?


    If mark hasn't won big than Eli hasn't b/c it was Eli's team that won those SBs- specifically his great defense which carried them.
    It is funny how week 17 games are meaningless to you based on what other teams do or don't do that your team has nothing to do with. If you aren't in the position to clinch a spot on your own and need to rely on what another team does in order to make it (that has nothing to do with your team) it doesn't make much difference to me if that team makes it or not. The position they were in was the same. When the required amount of wins is reliant on what another team does in the final weeks of the season, your team didn't do a good enough job earlier in the season. Teams that are in the same boat of needing help to qualify, are just that, regardless if they get the help or not. It doesn't change it from meaningless to meaningful.

    You prefer the guy who has averaged 11 fumbles over a 4 year span over a guy who has averaged 8 in a 9 year span?

    You didn't blow up anything. You didn't give context only showing what the score was at the start of the 4th. I care about the total numbers because it shows why the team was in that position to begin with. You must really like Tebow's win against KC. Who cares that he only completed 2 passes the whole game? I care. He wouldn't have been in the position to win without his D and running game, much like Mark in a lot of his comeback wins. The drastic difference in Eli's numbers and Mark's numbers in those games says it all.


    Mark didn't just get good FP, he got carried all the way to the NE 15 yard line and made a 5 yard pass. That seems to be a big deal to you, but when Eli converts a 3rd and 11 on his own 19 with a 15 yard pass, and then follows it up with a 16 yard pass to Nicks that he takes the rest of the way, you call it a 5 yard pass and say it is no big deal. Eli threw the ball 31 yards in the air before the receiver did anything with it, and buttfumble only threw it 5 yards his whole drive. Yet, Marks pass is a big deal and Eli's is not.

    I never said Eli didn't have help. I said he has contributed more to his team's playoff wins than buttfumble has. That is pretty obvious.

    I call them garbage time points since that is what you do with any other QB who loses a game. I'm talking about stats in playoff wins. Why should I care that Mark nearly doubled his TD total in playoff losses, when you don't care about QB stats in losses?

    Again:

    Mark 665 yards 5 TDs and 2 INTs in 4 playoff wins.
    Eli 2,073 yards 15 TDs and 2 INTs in his 8 playoff wins.


    That tells us all we need to know.
    Last edited by The New Guy; 04-09-2013 at 05:33 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The New Guy View Post
    It is funny how week 17 games are meaningless to you based on what other teams do or don't do that your team has nothing to do with. If you aren't in the position to clinch a spot on your own and need to rely on what another team does in order to make it (that has nothing to do with your team) it doesn't make much difference to me if that team makes it or not. The position they were in was the same. When the required amount of wins is reliant on what another team does in the final weeks of the season, your team didn't do a good enough job earlier in the season. Teams that are in the same boat of needing help to qualify, are just that, regardless if they get the help or not. It doesn't change it from meaningless to meaningful.

    You prefer the guy who has averaged 11 fumbles over a 4 year span over a guy who has averaged 8 in a 9 year span?

    You didn't blow up anything. You didn't give context only showing what the score was at the start of the 4th. I care about the total numbers because it shows why the team was in that position to begin with. You must really like Tebow's win against KC. Who cares that he only completed 2 passes the whole game? I care. He wouldn't have been in the position to win without his D and running game, much like Mark in a lot of his comeback wins. The drastic difference in Eli's numbers and Mark's numbers in those games says it all.


    Mark didn't just get good FP, he got carried all the way to the NE 15 yard line and made a 5 yard pass. That seems to be a big deal to you, but when Eli converts a 3rd and 11 on his own 19 with a 15 yard pass, and then follows it up with a 16 yard pass to Nicks that he takes the rest of the way, you call it a 5 yard pass and say it is no big deal. Eli threw the ball 31 yards in the air before the receiver did anything with it, and buttfumble only threw it 5 yards his whole drive. Yet, Marks pass is a big deal and Eli's is not.

    I never said Eli didn't have help. I said he has contributed more to his team's playoff wins than buttfumble has. That is pretty obvious.

    I call them garbage time points since that is what you do with any other QB who loses a game. I'm talking about stats in playoff wins. Why should I care that Mark nearly doubled his TD total in playoff losses, when you don't care about QB stats in losses?

    Again:

    Mark 665 yards 5 TDs and 2 INTs in 4 playoff wins.
    Eli 2,073 yards 15 TDs and 2 INTs in his 8 playoff wins.


    That tells us all we need to know.
    They had their chance to control their destiny and make the playoffs by beating GB. They got crushed, he threw 4 INTs. The likelihood that GB was going to lose the next game was pretty small especially w/ Chi having things wrapped up already. In the biggest game of the year he threw 4 INTs.

    those fumble #s seem pretty similar, he may average 11 but this was the first season he had 11.

    Comparing Mark to Tebow is silly and again those WEREN'T COMEBACKS. I can't go crazy over being tied or trailing by 1-2 entering the 4th.

    You want context show all the weapons Eli had compared to what mark had, even at his peak in 2010(though Holmes missed 4 games and cotch missed a few games) Eli had vastly superior weapons.

    We penalize the QB for RBs rushing the ball? 2007 title game, gets INT at GB 34, 2 runs for 5 yds they kick FG. It was all Eli, right? 2011 title game, gets FR at SF 24, 3 rushes for 18 yds sets up chip shot FG but it was all Eli!

    31 yds in the air? the LOS was at the 34, Nicks caught it at midfield. It was a 16 yd pass.

    he didn't contribute more, they contributed about the same. the reason one won and one lost was b/c of D/STs.

    all losses are garbage time? I guess week 17 last year when Eli threw 5 INTs when NYG was eliminated is non garbage time?

    buttfumble in wins 2009-2012: 45 TDs, 17 INTs

    Eli win wins 2004-2007: 45 TDs, 27 INTs

    very interesting.

    That doesn't tell us anything b/c there are Hail Marys and short passes turned into 66 yd TDs in there plus balls sticking to helmets.

    Plus:

    Eli had 282 attempts in those 8 wins. 25 per game
    Mark had 94 in 4 wins. , 24 per game

    Eli was 178-282, 2073, 15 TDs, 2 INTs

    prorate mark's #s over 282 attempts:

    174-282, 1995 yds, 15 TDs, 6 INTs

    The #s are pretty damn similar, right? and Mark was in year 1 and year 2, Eli was in year 4 and year 7. BIG difference and Mark didn't have any balls stick to helmets, throw any Hail Mary's or have any WRs take a 14 yd pass 66 yds for a TD.


    How about in playoff losses?

    Mark( 2 games) 37-63, 490 yds, 4 TDs, 1 INT
    Eli(3 games): 41-74, 443 yds, 2 TDs, 6 INTs

    One has contributed MUCH more to losses.

    By the way, below are the points the QBs led their teams to in regulation in postseason:

    Mark: 20 PPG
    Eli: 18.9 PPG

    TOs forced by team:

    NYJ: 8 in 6 games, 1.3 per game
    NYG: 16 in 11 games, 1.5 per game

    gets more TOs, leads team to less points.

    Interesting.
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    I can't believe this Junc is still lobbying for buttfumble... I'm not even able to find humor in it anymore.
    "Any ideology that fundamentally divides one group from another and prevents them from recognizing their common humanity is a problem" - Sam Harris

    Fin fan till' the coffin slams!
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    Quote Originally Posted by finfanaz View Post
    I can't believe this Junc is still lobbying for buttfumble... I'm not even able to find humor in it anymore.
    I argue for what is right, I apologize if that offends you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    They had their chance to control their destiny and make the playoffs by beating GB. They got crushed, he threw 4 INTs. The likelihood that GB was going to lose the next game was pretty small especially w/ Chi having things wrapped up already. In the biggest game of the year he threw 4 INTs.
    So did the Jets against Atl. How did Mark play in that game? He not only blew that game, he blew several others and only by the grace of the Colts did they make the playoffs. It is ridiculous to give Mark credit for that while trying to discredit Eli for not leading his team to the playoffs. Both teams needed help, and one team got it and the other team didn't. When a team needs help to get in, they are the same boat to me regardless if they end up getting the help or not.


    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    those fumble #s seem pretty similar, he may average 11 but this was the first season he had 11.
    Mark last 4 years: 10, 9, 10, 14

    Eli last 4 years: 13, 7, 9, 5

    Anyway you look at it, Eli doesn't fumble as much as buttfumble. Plus he's never had a buttfumble.


    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    Comparing Mark to Tebow is silly and again those WEREN'T COMEBACKS. I can't go crazy over being tied or trailing by 1-2 entering the 4th.
    I'm just giving you an example of why you shouldn't judge a QB solely based on a win. One QB could do very little and be kept in a game, and have 1 drive that wins it, and the other QB could have been the main reason the team was even in the game, and also have the 1 drive that wins it. They are not equal.

    Eli's role in comeback wins 2,478 yards 15 TDS and 2 Ints

    Mark's role in comeback wins 1,507 ayrds 7 TDs and 6 Ints

    Both guys got wins, but 1 guy has 1 more TD than picks, and the other guy has 13 more TDs than picks. It is easy to tell which QB played a bigger role in winning those games.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    You want context show all the weapons Eli had compared to what mark had, even at his peak in 2010(though Holmes missed 4 games and cotch missed a few games) Eli had vastly superior weapons.
    And Eli has been asked to do more than Mark ever has been asked to do. Even if Mark had the same guys Eli had, he is not turning into Eli.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    We penalize the QB for RBs rushing the ball? 2007 title game, gets INT at GB 34, 2 runs for 5 yds they kick FG. It was all Eli, right? 2011 title game, gets FR at SF 24, 3 rushes for 18 yds sets up chip shot FG but it was all Eli!
    I don't penalize them, I just don't give them much credit for the drive. The problem is you do give credit to Mark on those type of drives, and then turn around and bash Eli.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    31 yds in the air? the LOS was at the 34, Nicks caught it at midfield. It was a 16 yd pass.
    How did they get to the 34? Eli completed a 15 yard pass on 3rd and 11 that made the next play possible. Eli was responsible for 31 yards without the receivers ever touching the ball. Mark was responsible for 5 yards on his TD drive, but we don't hear about that from you. We just hear that Eli threw a 5 yard pass that the receiver took the rest of the way. Not quite.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    he didn't contribute more, they contributed about the same. the reason one won and one lost was b/c of D/STs.
    Mark 665 yards 5 TDs and 2 INTs in 4 wins.
    Eli 2,073 yards 15 TDs and 2 INTs in his 8 wins


    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    buttfumble in wins 2009-2012: 45 TDs, 17 INTs

    Eli win wins 2004-2007: 45 TDs, 27 INTs

    very interesting.
    Why are you are looking at stats in regular season wins for Eli from 2004 - 2007? In 2004 Eli only started 7 games and only won 1? How many of those 9 wins in 2009 was Mark the main reason they won? Mark has 4 more regular season wins which means you get to include stats from 4 games that Eli does not. You also left out all the stats from playoff wins which is where Eli has really separated himself.

    Are you the same guy that doesn't like to use fantasy stats?


    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    That doesn't tell us anything b/c there are Hail Marys and short passes turned into 66 yd TDs in there plus balls sticking to helmets.
    And it doesn't tell us how many games the QB played great in and lost, or how many games were lost because of the QB, or how many wins were because of the running game and D keeping the QB in games.


    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    Plus:

    Eli had 282 attempts in those 8 wins. 25 per game
    Mark had 94 in 4 wins. , 24 per game

    Eli was 178-282, 2073, 15 TDs, 2 INTs

    prorate mark's #s over 282 attempts:

    174-282, 1995 yds, 15 TDs, 6 INTs
    First, 282 attempts over 8 games is an average of 35 per game, not 25. Eli was asked to do more than Mark which is why he attempted 11 more passes per game.
    It is not fair to prorate Mark's numbers because he has never attempted 35 passes in a single playoff game. It is a completely different role. We have seen what happens when Mark has been asked to do more.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    By the way, below are the points the QBs led their teams to in regulation in postseason:

    Mark: 20 PPG
    Eli: 18.9 PPG

    TOs forced by team:

    NYJ: 8 in 6 games, 1.3 per game
    NYG: 16 in 11 games, 1.5 per game

    gets more TOs, leads team to less points.

    Interesting.
    Your averages were way off, so I can't trust those numbers. When I have the time, I'll go over them.

    Seriously, you don't really believe that Mark is as good a QB as Eli, so what are you really trying to debate?
    Last edited by The New Guy; 04-10-2013 at 12:37 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The New Guy View Post
    So did the Jets against Atl. How did Mark play in that game? He not only blew that game, he blew several others and only by the grace of the Colts did they make the playoffs. It is ridiculous to give Mark credit for that while trying to discredit Eli for not leading his team to the playoffs. Both teams needed help, and one team got it and the other team didn't. When a team needs help to get in, they are the same boat to me regardless if they end up getting the help or not.




    Mark last 4 years: 10, 9, 10, 14

    Eli last 4 years: 13, 7, 9, 5

    Anyway you look at it, Eli doesn't fumble as much as buttfumble. Plus he's never had a buttfumble.




    I'm just giving you an example of why you shouldn't judge a QB solely based on a win. One QB could do very little and be kept in a game, and have 1 drive that wins it, and the other QB could have been the main reason the team was even in the game, and also have the 1 drive that wins it. They are not equal.

    Eli's role in comeback wins 2,478 yards 15 TDS and 2 Ints

    Mark's role in comeback wins 1,507 ayrds 7 TDs and 6 Ints

    Both guys got wins, but 1 guy has 1 more TD than picks, and the other guy has 13 more TDs than picks. It is easy to tell which QB played a bigger role in winning those games.



    And Eli has been asked to do more than Mark ever has been asked to do. Even if Mark had the same guys Eli had, he is not turning into Eli.



    I don't penalize them, I just don't give them much credit for the drive. The problem is you do give credit to Mark on those type of drives, and then turn around and bash Eli.



    How did they get to the 34? Eli completed a 15 yard pass on 3rd and 11 that made the next play possible. Eli was responsible for 31 yards without the receivers ever touching the ball. Mark was responsible for 5 yards on his TD drive, but we don't hear about that from you. We just hear that Eli threw a 5 yard pass that the receiver took the rest of the way. Not quite.



    Mark 665 yards 5 TDs and 2 INTs in 4 wins.
    Eli 2,073 yards 15 TDs and 2 INTs in his 8 wins




    Why are you are looking at stats in regular season wins for Eli from 2004 - 2007? In 2004 Eli only started 7 games and only won 1? How many of those 9 wins in 2009 was Mark the main reason they won? Mark has 4 more regular season wins which means you get to include stats from 4 games that Eli does not. You also left out all the stats from playoff wins which is where Eli has really separated himself.

    Are you the same guy that doesn't like to use fantasy stats?




    And it doesn't tell us how many games the QB played great in and lost, or how many games were lost because of the QB, or how many wins were because of the running game and D keeping the QB in games.




    First, 282 attempts over 8 games is an average of 35 per game, not 25. Eli was asked to do more than Mark which is why he attempted 11 more passes per game.
    It is not fair to prorate Mark's numbers because he has never attempted 35 passes in a single playoff game. It is a completely different role. We have seen what happens when Mark has been asked to do more.



    Your averages were way off, so I can't trust those numbers. When I have the time, I'll go over them.

    Seriously, you don't really believe that Mark is as good a QB as Eli, so what are you really trying to debate?
    He didn't play well but he was a rookie not a 7th year starter and he gave his defense a late lead which they blew. Did Eli give his a D a late lead at GB?

    He didn't blow the Atl game, the D blew it, he didn't help us win but he didn't blow it. he blew the NO and Buf games.

    I am not discrediting, I am stating facts. We got a break w/ Indy, Eli got a break w/ a weak NFC in 2007, he got a break w/ a weak division in 2011. Good teams take advantage of those breaks.

    Mark's last 4 years are his first 4, Eli's last 4 years are years 6-9.

    He doesn't fumble as much, that's quite an accomplishment he only fumbles almost as much.

    I don't judge based solely on wins, I rate winning pretty high b/c that's the goal but if a QB is leading his team to 30 PPG and not winning that's one thing but in most cases wins and losses come down to the execution of the QB so I weigh it heavily. I also use individual stats and all that but winning and scoring pts are most important for me when judging QBs.

    AGAIN, those were not comebacks.

    Eli has more to work with, if mark had those weapons he could do a lot more too.

    a 15 yd pass on 3rd and 11 where he had 7 seconds to throw the ball waiting and waiting and waiting for a receiver to get open. what a great job by Eli!


    You told me stats only count in wins so I posted those #s from wins.


    I meant 35.

    mark managed the games better, he didn't need to throw 40-58 times like Eli plus Eli played 2 OT games where he had an extra qtr.

    mark has attempted 35 passes in a playoff game where he completed 61% of his passes, had 2 TDs, 0 INTs and a rating over 100 so it's fair to assume he can throw for 35 a game if need be. He didn't need to.

    How are my averages off? We can't count OT since he got a extra qtr(even counting OT it's less per game), Eli has been SHUT OUT and led his team to 9 pts, the lowest amount Mar led his O
    s to was 17 pts.

    Eli led O's:
    0 pts against Carolina
    20 pts at Philly
    24 at TB
    21 at Dal
    20 at GB(regulation)
    17 vs. NE
    9 vs. Philly(D recorded a safety)
    24 vs. Atl
    37 at GB
    17 at SF(regulation)
    19 vs. NE(D recorded a safety)
    209 total pts in 11 games. 18.9 PPG


    Obviously mark isn't as good as Eli is now but he was better in 2010 and w/ more weapons he can be as good or better than him again in the future. will it happen? not likely but it could.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    He didn't blow the Atl game, the D blew it, he didn't help us win but he didn't blow it. he blew the NO and Buf games.
    The Jets O had 33 plays on the Falcons side of the field and scored 0 points. Mark threw 3 picks and led his O to 7 points the entire game. But it was the D's fault. Classic! Stupid Jets D, they didn't hold the Falcons to a FG for the entire game. Mark led the O to 7 points all game, had (4) 3 and out drives and had 3 picks including a pick on his last drive when the team was only down 3. But it wasn't his fault, it was the D's. Unbelievable


    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    AGAIN, those were not comebacks.
    I don't care what you want to call them. Eli led game winning drives and Mark led game winning drives. That doesn't make them equal. Their stats show how each QB contributed to their team's wins.

    Eli's role 2,478 yards 15 TDS and 2 Ints

    Mark's role 1,507 ayrds 7 TDs and 6 Ints


    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    Eli has more to work with, if mark had those weapons he could do a lot more too.
    You think Mark could do more with more weapons, but he has shown nothing that backs that up.


    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    a 15 yd pass on 3rd and 11 where he had 7 seconds to throw the ball waiting and waiting and waiting for a receiver to get open. what a great job by Eli!
    Here you go again making excuses when Eli makes big plays. Eli completes a 15 yard pass on 3rd and 11, and then a 16 yard pass that Nicks takes for a TD, and you make little of it, while in the same breath uplift buttfumble for throwing a 5 yard pass on an entire drive. If you are going to try and discredit one QB, at least be consistent and do the same for Mark.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    You told me stats only count in wins so I posted those #s from wins.
    It is playoff wins remember? No one cares about those meaningless regular season fantasy stats right?

    Playoff wins:
    Mark 665 yards 5 TDs and 2 INTs in 4 wins.
    Eli 2,073 yards 15 TDs and 2 INTs in his 8 wins.

    That is all that needs to be said.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    mark has attempted 35 passes in a playoff game where he completed 61% of his passes, had 2 TDs, 0 INTs and a rating over 100 so it's fair to assume he can throw for 35 a game if need be. He didn't need to.
    That is not true. Mark has never attempted 35 passes in a single playoff game. I assume you are talking about the Pitt game where he threw 33 passes. He was 6 of 13 for 56 yards when the Steelers were actually playing defense in the first half. When the score was 24-3 he was able to bring the stats up, but I thought that was called garbage time?

    We have seen what happens when the Jets have asked Mark to do more.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    How are my averages off? We can't count OT since he got a extra qtr(even counting OT it's less per game), Eli has been SHUT OUT and led his team to 9 pts, the lowest amount Mar led his O
    s to was 17 pts.

    Eli led O's:
    0 pts against Carolina
    20 pts at Philly
    24 at TB
    21 at Dal
    20 at GB(regulation)
    17 vs. NE
    9 vs. Philly(D recorded a safety)
    24 vs. Atl
    37 at GB
    17 at SF(regulation)
    19 vs. NE(D recorded a safety)
    209 total pts in 11 games. 18.9 PPG


    Obviously mark isn't as good as Eli is now but he was better in 2010 and w/ more weapons he can be as good or better than him again in the future. will it happen? not likely but it could.
    I didn't say that the scoring average was off. I said that since you were off on Eli's attempts average, that I couldn't trust your numbers.

    You can't compare a scoring average of a team's O and give all the credit to the QB. You can't compare a scoring average over 11 games to a scoring average over 6 games. What we can look at that will tell us the role the QB played in the playoff wins is their stats.

    Mark 665 yards 5 TDs and 2 INTs in 4 wins.
    Eli 2,073 yards 15 TDs and 2 INTs in his 8 wins

    There is a better chance that Chad Henne becomes a solid starter than there is of Mark becoming as good as Eli.

    When both QBs are done, Eli will be remembered as a 2 time Super Bowl MVP who was clutch in the biggest games. Mark will probably be remembered for his buttfumble.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The New Guy View Post
    The Jets O had 33 plays on the Falcons side of the field and scored 0 points. Mark threw 3 picks and led his O to 7 points the entire game. But it was the D's fault. Classic! Stupid Jets D, they didn't hold the Falcons to a FG for the entire game. Mark led the O to 7 points all game, had (4) 3 and out drives and had 3 picks including a pick on his last drive when the team was only down 3. But it wasn't his fault, it was the D's. Unbelievable




    I don't care what you want to call them. Eli led game winning drives and Mark led game winning drives. That doesn't make them equal. Their stats show how each QB contributed to their team's wins.

    Eli's role 2,478 yards 15 TDS and 2 Ints

    Mark's role 1,507 ayrds 7 TDs and 6 Ints




    You think Mark could do more with more weapons, but he has shown nothing that backs that up.




    Here you go again making excuses when Eli makes big plays. Eli completes a 15 yard pass on 3rd and 11, and then a 16 yard pass that Nicks takes for a TD, and you make little of it, while in the same breath uplift buttfumble for throwing a 5 yard pass on an entire drive. If you are going to try and discredit one QB, at least be consistent and do the same for Mark.



    It is playoff wins remember? No one cares about those meaningless regular season fantasy stats right?

    Playoff wins:
    Mark 665 yards 5 TDs and 2 INTs in 4 wins.
    Eli 2,073 yards 15 TDs and 2 INTs in his 8 wins.

    That is all that needs to be said.



    That is not true. Mark has never attempted 35 passes in a single playoff game. I assume you are talking about the Pitt game where he threw 33 passes. He was 6 of 13 for 56 yards when the Steelers were actually playing defense in the first half. When the score was 24-3 he was able to bring the stats up, but I thought that was called garbage time?

    We have seen what happens when the Jets have asked Mark to do more.



    I didn't say that the scoring average was off. I said that since you were off on Eli's attempts average, that I couldn't trust your numbers.

    You can't compare a scoring average of a team's O and give all the credit to the QB. You can't compare a scoring average over 11 games to a scoring average over 6 games. What we can look at that will tell us the role the QB played in the playoff wins is their stats.

    Mark 665 yards 5 TDs and 2 INTs in 4 wins.
    Eli 2,073 yards 15 TDs and 2 INTs in his 8 wins

    There is a better chance that Chad Henne becomes a solid starter than there is of Mark becoming as good as Eli.

    When both QBs are done, Eli will be remembered as a 2 time Super Bowl MVP who was clutch in the biggest games. Mark will probably be remembered for his buttfumble.
    He played a role, it was a very cold and windy day. did you notice Matt Ryan couldn't do anything all day either? we had a 4 pt lead late, the D shut down Atl all day but w/ the game on the line w/ 4 mins left they allowed Atl to go 73 yds for the TD. The D blew it, it wasn't all their fault but they blew the game.

    When Mark has had quality weapons he's been in the title game each year.

    but they both led a ton of GW drives those 2 seasons? who cares about the #s, it's about getting the Ws.

    excuses? watch the clip at nfl.com. He had an eternity, you are trying to credit him for a great play as if Eli made the play w/ no help.

    prorate Mark's #s to the same # of attempts and the #s are almost identical which means mark was just as efficient as Eli despite less talent and a D that didn't step up in title games.

    I meant almost attempted 35 passes, 33 is pretty close.

    Oh the D wasn't playing in the 2nd half? he barely had the ball in the first half b/c the D allowed Pitt to control the clock.

    when they asked him to bring the team back he got us back w/in a score then the D failed AGAIN. if he had the NYG D he'd have SBs.

    who is giving all the credit to the QB? just stating a fact that Mark's Os have scored more and the difference btw the 2 gas been the Ds and STs.

    you can keep posting those out of context #s that don't help your argument all you want, prorate Mark's #s to the same # of attempts and the #s are almost identical.

    That's more b/c of the situations they were placed into, switch the QBs and teams and the results are the same.
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