Welcome to FinHeaven Fans Forums! We're glad to have you here. Please feel free to browse the forum. We'd like to invite you to join our community; doing so will enable you to view additional forums and post with our other members.



VIP Members don't see these ads. Join VIP Now
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 14

Thread: Second day left tackle prospects

  1. -1
    Starter

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Sep 2004
    Posts:
    2,459
    vCash:
    8011
    Thanks / No Thanks

    Second day left tackle prospects

    Have you guys done work on the second day LT prospects? I am thinking of:

    Menelik Watson
    Armstead
    Pugh
    K Long
    Brennan Williams

    How are you guys breaking them down?

    I am intrigued by Kyle Long. His dad and brother say he is the best athlete of the bunch. His arm length doesn't seem great but maybe he can make up for it with his movement skills? Very inexperienced. High risk/reward.

    Pugh just seems like a guard to me, although he also moves well.

    Armstead. Coming from Pine Bluff, he will likely need an adjustment period despite his off-the-charts athleticism.

    Brennan Williams looks the part. Intriguing prospect.

    Anyone in favor of Miami holding back on trading up for one of the Big 3 and rolling with one of these guys on day 2? Miami needs more pieces and depth everywhere. Trading up for a LT, and blowing picks in the process, may not be the way to go.
    Quote Quote  

  2. -2
    normaniii's Avatar
    Pro Bowler

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Jul 2008
    Posts:
    2,239
    vCash:
    4322
    Loc:
    wales and will die a prou
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Whatever way we go, I wont be happy if we trade up. I like Kyle Long. Think he would be ideal RT in a ZBS.
    Draft
    1-WR-Marqise Lee
    2-DT-Louis Nix
    3-OG-Gabe Jackson
    4-QB-AJ McCarron
    5-DT-Daniel McCullers
    5-CB-Antone Exum
    6-OT-Antonio Richardson
    7-OT-Seantrel Henderson
    Quote Quote  

  3. -3
    finfan54's Avatar
    FinHeaven VIP

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Aug 2002
    Posts:
    24,248
    vCash:
    14060
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Pugh can play LT day one. The obvious thing is the arms speaking long term so he can play there, but wouldnt be ideal.

    The others will not go on any team and play LT unless they are somewhat desperate. Getting used to the NFL is one thing. Thrown to the wolves at LT is another.

    There are only 3 sure things at LT who could start day one. Henceforth, the need to go up and get one.
    Quote Quote  

  4. -4
    DKphin's Avatar
    FinHeaven VIP

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Aug 2008
    Posts:
    6,837
    vCash:
    10905
    Loc:
    Off the shoulder of Orion
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by finfan54 View Post
    Pugh can play LT day one. The obvious thing is the arms speaking long term so he can play there, but wouldnt be ideal.

    The others will not go on any team and play LT unless they are somewhat desperate. Getting used to the NFL is one thing. Thrown to the wolves at LT is another.

    There are only 3 sure things at LT who could start day one. Henceforth, the need to go up and get one.
    I think his arm length is way over blown. Yes, you have to be a little concerned with the DL getting into him, but I think his other attributes way out weigh this concern. I disagree that a selection of KL is desperation. You have got to like his pedigree. Just because he is Howie's son and Chris's brother doesn't definitely ensure success, but it definitely helps. Also I think he moves pretty well.
    "It happens all the time," Taylor said. "It's not an exact science and personnel guys aren't the end-all, be-all. " Jason Taylor,2011
    Quote Quote  

  5. -5
    hooshoops's Avatar
    Ryan tannehill...like a boss

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Jul 2008
    Posts:
    31,382
    vCash:
    26583
    Loc:
    richmond va
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Kyle longs a guard in the pros.
    hoops scoops 2012 season ..."in 2014 ryan tannehill etches his name in stone amongst the games elite qbs"..."ryan tannehill and andrew luck will carry the afc for the next decade plus the way peyton manning and tom brady have this last decade plus"
    Quote Quote  

  6. -6
    Digital's Avatar
    Starter

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Feb 2008
    Posts:
    2,875
    vCash:
    8209
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Tatious View Post
    Have you guys done work on the second day LT prospects? I am thinking of:

    Menelik Watson
    Armstead
    Pugh
    K Long
    Brennan Williams

    How are you guys breaking them down?

    I am intrigued by Kyle Long. His dad and brother say he is the best athlete of the bunch. His arm length doesn't seem great but maybe he can make up for it with his movement skills? Very inexperienced. High risk/reward.

    Pugh just seems like a guard to me, although he also moves well.

    Armstead. Coming from Pine Bluff, he will likely need an adjustment period despite his off-the-charts athleticism.

    Brennan Williams looks the part. Intriguing prospect.

    Anyone in favor of Miami holding back on trading up for one of the Big 3 and rolling with one of these guys on day 2? Miami needs more pieces and depth everywhere. Trading up for a LT, and blowing picks in the process, may not be the way to go.
    Well I think it's iffy to look at Justin Pugh as a 2nd day prospect, because there's a lot of teams that would take him at the bottom of the 1st. His short arms aren't really much shorter than the average tackle, and he's technically sound. He has good movement skills and projects to be someone who could start right away and be significantly better than Jonathan Martin. To me, he's the clear #1 of those guys.

    Terron Armstead is the classic high ceiling guy who lacks experience. He hasn't played at the highest level, he's not refined in his technique, but he has the physical tools. Probably will become a good OT in time, but whether that's season 1 or season 5 is the real question. Like him, but doesn't really fit for us who needs an OT and an OG right now. He'll be taken in the 2nd or 3rd.

    Menalik Watson is one of those guys who people disagree about when they assess him. On tape he appears to have athletic ability, but is raw. Testing him he appears not to have athletic ability. I've never been a believer in Watson.

    Kyle Long definitely looks the part. But he is both raw and over-age, so how many productive years will you have, and how long do you have to wait to get them? IMHO, his draft stock will drop because of the age and need for experience, but the kid is very athletic like Armstead, has the NFL pedigree and work ethic, and looks like he will become a sure-fire quality player at some point. He may get over-drafted by a team that can wait on him or a team with a desperate need for an OT (like Arizona or San Diego), but to me, he's a 3rd rounder because he'll take a year or two to develop and then have less years of production. But, high ceiling, great tools, and all the needed ingredients to be very good. Less risky bet than Armstead, but will likely give you less years of production.

    Brennan Williams looks like a tier down from those other guys to me. He can become a solid NFL tackle, but likely a RT. I'd throw him into the mid-round bucket with guys like Reid Fragel, whom I know we've met with and probably are looking to pluck in the 4th-7th to try at RT.

    Mayock and a bunch of analysts talk about how this is a great OT draft, but I'm not really convinced of that. Sure, the top 3 are all good prospects, and this group you're highlighting have potential as well, but it's not really a deep group. If you want a LT, grab one of Joeckel, Fisher or Johnson. Otherwise it's a bit of rolling the dice. Fluker, Watson, Williams and the rest are not LT's in my eyes. Armstead and Long are projections, and the team that takes them will likely have to live with some lumps the first couple of years as they develop them. Pugh is solid, ready to go day 1, and can legitimately play either tackle or guard, but not really elite.
    "I want guys who want to make an impact on and off the field. Good human beings. Guys who want to get better. Guys who want to improve. They want to be great, want to win. Those types of guys we can work with every day." --Joe Philbin
    - Defending the Read Option - What do you think?
    Quote Quote  

  7. -7
    Twitches Brew's Avatar
    Pro Bowler

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Dec 2010
    Posts:
    1,206
    vCash:
    1465
    Thanks / No Thanks
    I can't tell Tackles apart to add anything there.

    But I will say that I'm an advocate of taking two tackles between rds 2-4. Assuming we don't take one at 12, I see doubling-up as a necessity here given that we currently have one starting tackle and even he has questions. Give ourselves 3 young mid-round talents from whom we can find a RT/LT combo that works. Strength in numbers to complete the OL unit, find a mix that'll get the job done.
    Quote Quote  

  8. -8
    hooshoops's Avatar
    Ryan tannehill...like a boss

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Jul 2008
    Posts:
    31,382
    vCash:
    26583
    Loc:
    richmond va
    Thanks / No Thanks
    B/t I think the miami target here other than lane Johnson is menelik Watson. Watch out at pick #42. I am not a fan of this guy but if he's there when we come on the clock with our 2nd pick I'm gonna hold my breath this isn't the card
    Quote Quote  

  9. -9
    Ruckus45's Avatar
    FinHeaven VIP

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Oct 2012
    Posts:
    2,558
    vCash:
    11082
    Loc:
    NC
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Cam Wake 91Dolphins Homer
    I do think Pugh's arm length matters. Sure you can overcome it with smarts and technique but look at this:

    Team- Left tackle Arm length -Sacks
    allowed -Starts - Sacks per game
    Denver Broncos Ryan Clady 36 3/4 0.5 16 0.03
    Philadelphia Eagles Tra Thomas 36 1/2 2 16 0.13
    Dallas Cowboys Flozell Adams 36 1/2 7.25 16 0.45
    St. Louis Rams Orlando Pace 36 1/4 2 14 0.14 New York Jets D'Brickashaw Ferguson 36 1/4 4 16 0.25
    Indianapolis Colts Tony Ugoh 36 3 12 0.25
    Baltimore Ravens Jared Gaither 36 3 15 0.20
    Miami Dolphins Jake Long 35 3/4 2.5 16 0.16
    San Diego Chargers Marcus McNeill 35 1/2 3 14 0.21
    Minnesota Vikings Bryant McKinnie 35 1/2 4 12 0.33
    Pittsburgh Steelers Max Starks 35 1/2 4 11 0.36
    Kansas City Chiefs Branden Albert 35 1/2 4.5 15 0.30
    New Orleans Saints Jammal Brown 34 3/4 3 15 0.20
    Cincinnati Bengals Levi Jones 34 3/4 5.5 10 0.55
    Jacksonville Jaguars Khalif Barnes 34 3/4 7.5 16 0.47
    Seattle Seahawks Walter Jones 34 1/2 3.5 12 0.29
    Oakland Raiders Kwame Harris 34 1/4 7.5 11 0.68
    San Francisco ***** Joe Staley 34 1/4 8.5 16 0.53
    Houston Texans Duane Brown 34 1/4 11.5 16 0.72
    Arizona Cardinals Mike Gandy 34 6.25 16 0.39
    Chicago Bears John St. Clair 34 9.25 16 0.58
    Cleveland Browns Joe Thomas 33 3/4 4.5 16 0.28
    New York Giants David Diehl 33 3/4 6.5 16 0.41
    Washington Redskins Chris Samuels 33 1/2 3 12 0.25
    New England Patriots Matt Light 33 1/2 7.5 16 0.47
    Carolina Panthers Jordan Gross 33 1/4 3 15 0.20
    Buffalo Bills Jason Peters 33 1/8 11.5 13 0.88
    Green Bay Packers Chad Clifton 33 7.5 15 0.50
    Tampa Bay Buccaneers Donald Penn 33 8.5 16 0.53
    Atlanta Falcons Sam Baker 32 3/4 1 5 0.20
    Detroit Lions Jeff Backus 32 1/2 9.25 16 0.58
    Tennessee Titans Michael Roos 32 1/4 1 16 0.06


    Except for Michael Roos the average sacks per game goes up a little per inch. So statistically it can be important.

    I like Armstead for upside and athleticism, but not sure he is a day one starter. Not sure of his arm length
    Quote Quote  

  10. -10
    Starter

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Sep 2004
    Posts:
    2,459
    vCash:
    8011
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Great discussion.

    According to WalterFootball.com (http://walterfootball.com/draft2013OT.php), here are some arm lengths:

    Armstead 33 5/8
    B Williams 34.08
    Justin Pugh 31.5
    K Long 32 1/8
    M Watson 34.08

    By way of comparison to the first rounders:
    Fluker 36 3/8 (freakish)
    L Johnson 35
    Joeckel 34.28
    Fisher 34

    Reid Fragel 33.08
    Luke Marquardt 34.48

    Obviously, there is much more to it than arm length. But is still an important metric.

    Pugh and K Long seem to stick out with their short arms relative to the NFL prototype.
    Quote Quote  

Similar Threads

  1. Nose Tackle Prospects..other than Raji or Brace
    By dolphinator86 in forum NFL Draft Forum
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 01-23-2009, 11:21 PM
  2. Left Tackle
    By shadowdolphin34 in forum Miami Dolphins Forum
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 12-24-2006, 03:35 PM
  3. Nose Tackle prospects
    By Vertical Limit in forum NFL Draft Forum
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 12-14-2006, 03:39 PM
  4. Offensive Tackle prospects for 2006 draft
    By MiamiHitman in forum NFL Draft Forum
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 01-02-2006, 10:05 PM
  5. Left Tackle vs Qb
    By djfresh47 in forum Miami Dolphins Forum
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 06-28-2005, 07:04 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •