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Thread: A Very Simple Look at An Albert Trade

  1. -91
    NBP81's Avatar
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    1972 Dolphins Logo2013 Dolphins LogoCam Wake 91
    Quote Originally Posted by damanref10 View Post
    draft an offensive tackle .. not in the first round.

    I don't think Tannehill is going to die if we dont get Albert or one of the big three OT prospects in the draft this year. To me, spending a giant sum of extension money on Albert just doesnt make sense.

    From the very beginning, I've said the 2nd round compensation for Albert is more than fair compensation, but I can't justify giving him an extension that hes looking for with the way the new rookie salary cap has been set up. For the next 4 to 5 years, I think we are much better served drafting an OT, or like you suggest sign Winston to a 1 year deal, and draft one next year.. rather than 4-5 years of Albert with a massive contract tied up in him. It's not a knock on him as a player, its just a different philosophy when it comes to drafting v. signing FA (or trading and extending) expensive positions.
    TBH I pretty much agree with everything you stand for on this thing. But we don't know yet what type of contract Albert might be signed for, your arguing on the base that he'll get 9+ which is the worst case scenario(2nd compensation- long term deal at 9+ per). What if we wait them out and it ends up being the best case scenario(3rd compensation-7.5 per) how would you feel then? Other thing I strongly disagree with is throwing a 2nd round rookie out there starting. That is a disaster scenario IMO which MIGHT end up profitable on the long run but WILL 100% shutdown our offense this season. 100%! There's no way this offense manages even as little as 17 pts a game with Martin and a 2nd round rookie as our starting tackles this season. and even then there's still a chance both those guys aren't even starting material on the long run also... No way this happens...
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    Ireland don't trade for Albert if he wants to much money and give a third round pick not 2nd. We are not winning the Super Bowl this Year. Get a ot in the second.
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  3. -93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canadi-Phin View Post
    Your right it is a copycat league where Teams throw now more than ever and last year he showed that all the LTs that made the playoffs we're drafted high. Argue it all you want but that is a fact. McKinnie was still a first rounder that help the team win the Super Bowl. Why is it that all the professional teams, coaches and gms draft LTs high? .
    So sign Mckinnie, don't tell me he's turned into a dud these few months since the SB. And professional teams, coaches and gms draft pretty much everything high, not just tackles.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBP81 View Post
    TBH I pretty much agree with everything you stand for on this thing. But we don't know yet what type of contract Albert might be signed for, your arguing on the base that he'll get 9+ which is the worst case scenario(2nd compensation- long term deal at 9+ per). What if we wait them out and it ends up being the best case scenario(3rd compensation-7.5 per) how would you feel then? Other thing I strongly disagree with is throwing a 2nd round rookie out there starting. That is a disaster scenario IMO which MIGHT end up profitable on the long run but WILL 100% shutdown our offense this season. 100%! There's no way this offense manages even as little as 17 pts a game with Martin and a 2nd round rookie as our starting tackles this season. and even then there's still a chance both those guys aren't even starting material on the long run also... No way this happens...

    I guess there are a few things I have to explain on my stance which justifies my thinking for a lot of this.

    1. Albert isnt being chased out KC because he's a bad player. He is a very solid player, but wants to be paid like a top LT, he has said so. Its another reason he doesnt want to move to RT or inside to Guard where he played in college... its less money, he knows this. A top Guard makes around 7-8 million.... and hes basically saying he doesnt want to swtich to that position because of money. So i'm assuming he wants big bucks, and he is more than entitled to that stance... this is his job.

    2. Ireland has shown that he isnt afraid to overpay this offseason. This can be debated back and forth... but Ellerbe chose us over staying in Balt because we blew their deal out of the water... we made Mike Wallace the 3rd highest WR in the league ( i think).. and he isnt the 3rd best receiver in the league... wheeler got the same deal as Ellerbe.. ect ect..... If we trade for Albert.. I'm assuming its because they agreed to a big deal with Albert (8.5+ per year)

    3. I don't think we are going to have a good year this year. The schedule is rough, and above all else, I dont know how much better we actually got this offseason. The linebackers are a wash. they might be better, they might not be... but we saved some cash.. but cash doesnt get you Wins. Mike Wallace is absolutely an upgrade... but 3 wins worth to get us to the playoffs? This season starts.... and ends with Tannehill. And if we survive injuries... one injury to Cam wake... and our defense goes from solid to bottom tier in the league.

    With those factors in mind, I'm looking past just this year. I didnt like Martin last year, I still dont, but hes penciled in as a starting OT.... but heres my thinking... lets say we blow this draft out of the water.... are we competing for a superbowl this year? i dont believe so.. most people here are hoping for a winning record and a WC berth... if thats the case.... why lock down a player long term when it really only behoofs us for one year?

    There are ways to survive the season, have a good growing season, and not shutdown our offense completely. It will be a half step back for one year, but to me many better and bigger steps in later years
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  5. -95
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    Quote Originally Posted by roy_miami View Post
    So sign Mckinnie, don't tell me he's turned into a dud these few months since the SB. And professional teams, coaches and gms draft pretty much everything high, not just tackles.
    Yes they do and no they don't, safeties, MLBs, RBs (now), guards, TEs, even corners never go top 3. Even AP went 6th. If McKinnie came here for 4mil okay but what's the long term plan, also does McKinnie fit the zbs? I'm not against anything I just want us to have the best team we can going forward. Albert would most likely contribute more over the next three years then whoever we draft at 54 or 3A.
    Let's go Miami!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by damanref10 View Post
    [/B]
    No its not so easy... but it just so happens that the GM's that are good at their job are skilled enough to find them. How do I "arbitrarily" decide that those GM's are the best at their job... well because they WIN the superbowl, not just make the playoffs.

    What does that have to do with anything? The best player in the draft this year might be a Left Tackle. Sure.... guess what KC is trying to do... Trying to TRADE THE **** OUT OF THAT TOP SPOT..... if there was a QB even close to being worth the top pick, it wouldnt even be a discussion.
    Yes those who win the Super Bowl are good. So Ozzie drafting Oher high In the first shows he understand the importance of a LT, it wasn't working so he signed McKinnie. Ozzie is the perfect example of a guy who values the LT, he had Ogden and paid him top dollar at the time, then he spent a pic on Gaithers and then right after that Oher. Ozzie of all the examples shows the importance of the position. Especially once you find the guy who is your QB going forward.

    Of course if there was a Great QB at one this wouldn't even be a discussion. QB is the number one need on every team above every position. LT have a habit of being drafted high is all I'm saying.
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    Quote Originally Posted by damanref10 View Post
    I guess there are a few things I have to explain on my stance which justifies my thinking for a lot of this.

    1. Albert isnt being chased out KC because he's a bad player. He is a very solid player, but wants to be paid like a top LT, he has said so. Its another reason he doesnt want to move to RT or inside to Guard where he played in college... its less money, he knows this. A top Guard makes around 7-8 million.... and hes basically saying he doesnt want to swtich to that position because of money. So i'm assuming he wants big bucks, and he is more than entitled to that stance... this is his job.

    2. Ireland has shown that he isnt afraid to overpay this offseason. This can be debated back and forth... but Ellerbe chose us over staying in Balt because we blew their deal out of the water... we made Mike Wallace the 3rd highest WR in the league ( i think).. and he isnt the 3rd best receiver in the league... wheeler got the same deal as Ellerbe.. ect ect..... If we trade for Albert.. I'm assuming its because they agreed to a big deal with Albert (8.5+ per year)

    3. I don't think we are going to have a good year this year. The schedule is rough, and above all else, I dont know how much better we actually got this offseason. The linebackers are a wash. they might be better, they might not be... but we saved some cash.. but cash doesnt get you Wins. Mike Wallace is absolutely an upgrade... but 3 wins worth to get us to the playoffs? This season starts.... and ends with Tannehill. And if we survive injuries... one injury to Cam wake... and our defense goes from solid to bottom tier in the league.

    With those factors in mind, I'm looking past just this year. I didnt like Martin last year, I still dont, but hes penciled in as a starting OT.... but heres my thinking... lets say we blow this draft out of the water.... are we competing for a superbowl this year? i dont believe so.. most people here are hoping for a winning record and a WC berth... if thats the case.... why lock down a player long term when it really only behoofs us for one year?

    There are ways to survive the season, have a good growing season, and not shutdown our offense completely. It will be a half step back for one year, but to me many better and bigger steps in later years
    Fair enough. We disagree on the part where this offense and Ryan Tannehill can still run and GROW with Martin and a rookie 2nd rounder as our starting tackles, and you seem to think that Albert will only help the team next year and somehow disapear afterwards. I do agree that ideally, you'd get those position fixed with lower rounds, in house groomed prospects. But we're not this this situation as a team right now and this is where we're arguing back and forth.

    nonetheless, I enjoyed this discussion, all class! this is why I come to finheaven. Now Im out to sleep!
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  8. -98
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    Quote Originally Posted by damanref10 View Post
    I guess there are a few things I have to explain on my stance which justifies my thinking for a lot of this.

    1. Albert isnt being chased out KC because he's a bad player. He is a very solid player, but wants to be paid like a top LT, he has said so. Its another reason he doesnt want to move to RT or inside to Guard where he played in college... its less money, he knows this. A top Guard makes around 7-8 million.... and hes basically saying he doesnt want to swtich to that position because of money. So i'm assuming he wants big bucks, and he is more than entitled to that stance... this is his job.

    2. Ireland has shown that he isnt afraid to overpay this offseason. This can be debated back and forth... but Ellerbe chose us over staying in Balt because we blew their deal out of the water... we made Mike Wallace the 3rd highest WR in the league ( i think).. and he isnt the 3rd best receiver in the league... wheeler got the same deal as Ellerbe.. ect ect..... If we trade for Albert.. I'm assuming its because they agreed to a big deal with Albert (8.5+ per year)

    3. I don't think we are going to have a good year this year. The schedule is rough, and above all else, I dont know how much better we actually got this offseason. The linebackers are a wash. they might be better, they might not be... but we saved some cash.. but cash doesnt get you Wins. Mike Wallace is absolutely an upgrade... but 3 wins worth to get us to the playoffs? This season starts.... and ends with Tannehill. And if we survive injuries... one injury to Cam wake... and our defense goes from solid to bottom tier in the league.

    With those factors in mind, I'm looking past just this year. I didnt like Martin last year, I still dont, but hes penciled in as a starting OT.... but heres my thinking... lets say we blow this draft out of the water.... are we competing for a superbowl this year? i dont believe so.. most people here are hoping for a winning record and a WC berth... if thats the case.... why lock down a player long term when it really only behoofs us for one year?

    There are ways to survive the season, have a good growing season, and not shutdown our offense completely. It will be a half step back for one year, but to me many better and bigger steps in later years

    Great points, if he wants that much money then I'm not interested. I'm looking at it as 7mil is max I'd pay. Beatty money. I wish the FO was showing more confidence in Martin.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canadi-Phin View Post
    Yes those who win the Super Bowl are good. So Ozzie drafting Oher high In the first shows he understand the importance of a LT, it wasn't working so he signed McKinnie. Ozzie is the perfect example of a guy who values the LT, he had Ogden and paid him top dollar at the time, then he spent a pic on Gaithers and then right after that Oher. Ozzie of all the examples shows the importance of the position. Especially once you find the guy who is your QB going forward.

    Of course if there was a Great QB at one this wouldn't even be a discussion. QB is the number one need on every team above every position. LT have a habit of being drafted high is all I'm saying.
    Ozzie became GM in 2002.. Ogden was drafted in 1996.
    Oher turned out to be a bad LT so Ozzie found a veteran to step in and take over.

    I'm not saying LT isnt important... im saying fixing it by FA and giant extension wouldnt be my choice vs drafting one. Mckinnie was the only LT on that list who wasnt drafted by their team who won the superbowl. And i don't disagree that LT being drafted high isnt a habit... there is NO argument from me there, I just think its the wrong choice most times.
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    Quote Originally Posted by damanref10 View Post
    Ozzie became GM in 2002.. Ogden was drafted in 1996.
    Oher turned out to be a bad LT so Ozzie found a veteran to step in and take over.

    I'm not saying LT isnt important... im saying fixing it by FA and giant extension wouldnt be my choice vs drafting one. Mckinnie was the only LT on that list who wasnt drafted by their team who won the superbowl. And i don't disagree that LT being drafted high isnt a habit... there is NO argument from me there, I just think its the wrong choice most times.
    Fair enough, haha. I hope somehow Martin maybe proves us all wrong including the FO and become an above average LT. Going to be an interesting week. Let's hope no matter what they choose it works out.
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