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Thread: A Very Simple Look at An Albert Trade

  1. -81
    CRAZYDOLFAN305's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by damanref10 View Post
    Come on now..... even after our little combination you arent going to include where they were all drafted?????

    Saying left tackle isnt an important position is naive... but neglecting to show how the SUPERBOWL winning teams are acquiring them is being even more naive. (not directed at anyone personally)

    Only Bryant Mckinnie and Tarik Glenn were drafted in the first round out of that list, and Mckinnie won the superbowl with a different team than where he was drafted (vikings) nearly a decade later.

    The formula is simple.... draft your LT in the 2nd round or later. NFL is a copycat league.... why not copy what the Superbowl Winners have proven works?
    I didn't mean to omit that sir. My bad..
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  2. -82
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBP81 View Post
    Well first of all there are no OTs available in the 2nd round of this year's draft that will come close to Albert's production year one. Agreed? So this season its either Martin, Albert, or one of the top 3 OTs in this draftb which we'll most likely have to trade up for. Agreed? OR we can go along and draft our 2013 starting LT in the 2nd round or higher as you said. Think about it for a second. Look at the players, and then look me in the eyes and tell me Tannehill doesn't get KILLED behind an OL that features bookends J.Martin and a 2nd round pick from this draft. I agree with the point you are trying to make that LT is a position you should be able to fix with a 2nd round+ pick, but that guy wont be starting day one on the left side effectively unless your very very lucky. So the options simply put are:
    1) Albert for a 2nd and a contract
    2) one of the top 3 tackle in this draft for multiple picks
    3) someone from the 2nd round or later.

    Im honestly good with 1 and 2, shoot I'd sign Winston and be done with it but the FO(pretty much every team in the nfl) has made it obvious they don't view him as an option. But there's no efffing way option 3 makes any sense at all in this situation, none!
    Is it more than likely that we cant find an OT for THIS YEAR only thats as good as Albert, sure I'll concede that and play along there. But that kind of short sightedness is only good for one type of thinking, the kind of thinking like.. hmm i have one year to save my job kind of thinking. But it's not that simple... sacrificing one year (of marginally better LT play) at the price of a 4 or 5 year "top LT in the NFL" contract extension just doesnt seem like a good idea me. So while you might get better play for this year, finding a cheap comparable replacement for 4 years on a rookie deal is just a much better deal to me.

    Again... "there are no starting LT's that can be found in the 2nd round this year" argument..... in that case anyone taken outside of the 2nd round should just be drafted and then cut because they have no business starting in the NFL. Its a flawed argument to say we cant find a quality starter in the draft outside of the 1st round or 2nd round... the fact of the matter is that maybe our GM can't evaluate talent well enough to find that talent... but thats another story.

    Last 10 superbowl winning LT's, provided originally by Crazydolfan305 and then with their draft sta

    Bryant Mckinnie -- Drafted by Vikings in 1st Round 7th overall (obviously didnt win a superbowl with vikings.... won it this year with Ravens in his 10th? year)
    David Diehl -- Drafted by NYG in 5th Round
    Chad Clifton -- Drafted by GB in 2nd Round
    Jermon Bushrod --- Drafted by NO in 4th Round
    Max Starks -- Drafted by the Pitt in 3rd Round
    David Diehl ---- Still was drafted by NYG in 5th Round
    Tarik Glenn --- Drafted by Colts in 1st Round (19th overall)
    Marvel Amos Smith - Drafted by Steelers in the 2nd Round
    Matt Light -- Drafted by the Patriots in the 2nd Round

    I guarantee you going into those drafts where Superbowl and Pro Bowl quality Left Tackles were being drafted.. the general consensus was that 3rd, 4th, and 5th round picks shouldnt have been good enough to get the job done.. but they do.

    ---------- Post added at 11:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by CRAZYDOLFAN305 View Post
    I didn't mean to omit that sir. My bad..
    haha just giving you a hard time... knew the point you were making (and its still a good one). just wanted to add the extra bit
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    NBP81's Avatar
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    1972 Dolphins Logo2013 Dolphins LogoCam Wake 91
    Did they all start day 1 on the left side? Did they even start day one? And your looking at past drafts where some might be deeper than others. Again, name me one OT prospect from THIS draft you expect to be available in the second round that can start day 1 on either side of the line. Keep in mind you've got Martin who's also a 2nd rounder and didn't grade out very well as the other bookend...
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  4. -84
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBP81 View Post
    Did they all start day 1 on the left side? Did they even start day one? And your looking at past drafts where some might be deeper than others. Again, name me one OT prospect from THIS draft you expect to be available in the second round that can start day 1 on either side of the line. Keep in mind you've got Martin who's also a 2nd rounder and didn't grade out very well on the other side...
    Diehl started 16 games as a rookie
    Light started 12 games and played in 14
    marvel smith started in 9 and played in 12
    Chad clifton started in 10 and played 13
    Bushrod didnt play his rookie season

    I'm not gonna sit here and say I have names of guys that I think can be drafted in the 2nd round or later and become instant starters and eventual pro bowl superbowl left tackles.. the funny thing is, if 32 GM's knew these guys would be this good .... they wouldnt be getting drafted in the 2nd round or later. But the facts show that this is how the teams that succeed in this league are finding their LT's.
    If you want 1 year of better LT play, Albert is your best bet. But this is only a 1 season make or break for 1 man.... I'm looking past just one season.
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    1972 Dolphins Logo2013 Dolphins LogoCam Wake 91
    Quote Originally Posted by damanref10 View Post
    Diehl started 16 games as a rookie
    Light started 12 games and played in 14
    marvel smith started in 9 and played in 12
    Chad clifton started in 10 and played 13
    Bushrod didnt play his rookie season

    I'm not gonna sit here and say I have names of guys that I think can be drafted in the 2nd round or later and become instant starters and eventual pro bowl superbowl left tackles.. the funny thing is, if 32 GM's knew these guys would be this good .... they wouldnt be getting drafted in the 2nd round or later. But the facts show that this is how the teams that succeed in this league are finding their LT's.
    If you want 1 year of better LT play, Albert is your best bet. But this is only a 1 season make or break for 1 man.... I'm looking past just one season.
    so bottom line, what would you do?
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    Quote Originally Posted by damanref10 View Post
    Come on now..... even after our little combination you arent going to include where they were all drafted?????

    Saying left tackle isnt an important position is naive... but neglecting to show how the SUPERBOWL winning teams are acquiring them is being even more naive. (not directed at anyone personally)

    Only Bryant Mckinnie and Tarik Glenn were drafted in the first round out of that list, and Mckinnie won the superbowl with a different team than where he was drafted (vikings) nearly a decade later.

    The formula is simple.... draft your LT in the 2nd round or later. NFL is a copycat league.... why not copy what the Superbowl Winners have proven works?
    Your right it is a copycat league where Teams throw now more than ever and last year he showed that all the LTs that made the playoffs we're drafted high. Argue it all you want but that is a fact. McKinnie was still a first rounder that help the team win the Super Bowl. Why is it that all the professional teams, coaches and gms draft LTs high? That last list shows that every team that made the playoffs last year used a high pick and also pays their LT well. Using 54 to get Albert is using our assets well to improve our team. If its our 3A it's even better. Beatty sized contract would be perfect and actually just below average of the top ten LTs. I love how everyone thinks its so easy to find these very good LTs anywhere in the draft. Guess what, we are not talking about rbs or mlbs. If Belichek had 1st pick this year he most likely would be picking a tackle, either a left or defensive. That is where the talent lies in this draft at the top.
    Let's go Miami!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBP81 View Post
    so bottom line, what would you do?
    draft an offensive tackle .. not in the first round.

    I don't think Tannehill is going to die if we dont get Albert or one of the big three OT prospects in the draft this year. To me, spending a giant sum of extension money on Albert just doesnt make sense.

    From the very beginning, I've said the 2nd round compensation for Albert is more than fair compensation, but I can't justify giving him an extension that hes looking for with the way the new rookie salary cap has been set up. For the next 4 to 5 years, I think we are much better served drafting an OT, or like you suggest sign Winston to a 1 year deal, and draft one next year.. rather than 4-5 years of Albert with a massive contract tied up in him. It's not a knock on him as a player, its just a different philosophy when it comes to drafting v. signing FA (or trading and extending) expensive positions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canadi-Phin View Post
    Your right it is a copycat league where Teams throw now more than ever and last year he showed that all the LTs that made the playoffs we're drafted high. Argue it all you want but that is a fact. McKinnie was still a first rounder that help the team win the Super Bowl. Why is it that all the professional teams, coaches and gms draft LTs high? That last list shows that every team that made the playoffs last year used a high pick and also pays their LT well. Using 54 to get Albert is using our assets well to improve our team. If its our 3A it's even better. Beatty sized contract would be perfect and actually just below average of the top ten LTs. I love how everyone thinks its so easy to find these very good LTs anywhere in the draft. Guess what, we are not talking about rbs or mlbs. If Belichek had 1st pick this year he most likely would be picking a tackle, either a left or defensive. That is where the talent lies in this draft at the top.


    No its not so easy... but it just so happens that the GM's that are good at their job are skilled enough to find them. How do I "arbitrarily" decide that those GM's are the best at their job... well because they WIN the superbowl, not just make the playoffs.

    What does that have to do with anything? The best player in the draft this year might be a Left Tackle. Sure.... guess what KC is trying to do... Trying to TRADE THE **** OUT OF THAT TOP SPOT..... if there was a QB even close to being worth the top pick, it wouldnt even be a discussion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awsi Dooger View Post
    Our needs are straight forward: Premier players. With our assets this spring we need to target premier players. I would try to go 2-0, via standing pat at 12 and weighing our options as the early picks played out, and then look to move into the first round, or earlier in the second round, by packaging some combination of 42 and 54 along with other picks.

    2-0 is a great day. I've mentioned that before in relation to my betting. We should strive for 2-0. Two premier players, Pro Bowl types. Jim Valvano's think/laugh/cry is a great day and also quite steep. You're adding that extra hurdle.

    Albert is not a premier player. It would be the same flawed thought process that we've specialized in for decades. Sloppily patch this hole, just like we're determined to patch the stadium. Far more astute to allow that weakness to remain and hope something falls our way, while making darn sure we give ourselves the best logical and mathematical opportunity to acquire special talent.

    Every year you get the crap conventional wisdom that this draft is deep and strong into the late second round, or extends into the mid third round. Whatever. Subjective muck muck that must sound great to type out. Meanwhile, over a long sample the results spit out the same, that first round through early second round provides the greatest opportunity for a Pro Bowl or similar caliber player. We should invest our additional resources in 2013 along those lines. If we trade for this guy Albert, he's a talented pass blocker who was a prime pick several years ago, and in all likelihood has already spent his best years. A self centered player with back issues might surprise on the high end, but it's certainly not the favorite. More likely it's simply another B or B- player instead of C or C+, which doesn't do you any good.

    In a short game you might win with a pair of 9s. To win the league, stockpile aces.

    In the middle rounds, I would target the positions considered deepest. That is one aspect that seems to hold up. We blew it in the tight end draft a few years ago, and in the wide receiver draft last season we allowed T.Y. Hilton to slip past us, in favor of a tight end, even though there was a well known gap between the top rated tight ends and the next tier.
    omg how refreshing, someone on finheaven who gets it. Preach on man.
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    Honestly in a perfect world these guys are comfortable with Martin at LT and then we could draft another tackle to play RT both on the cheap for the next few years. Just seems that the guys who know Martin best have this little confidence in him playing LT. I old much rather drafting our own players but we seem to be, management that is, scared of Martin playing LT. I'm giving Ireland the benefit of the doubt here. If we can get Albert for 2b or better yet 3a and get him on a reasonable contract I think it's a win-win. If we are trading for him and giving him 9mil/yr then I have a problem with it. But at 6-7.5mil/yr. thats a good deal. Perfect world I agree, draft our own RT and move Martin to LT. Maybe that what ends up happening if Albert wants stupid money.
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