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Thread: History's jury is still out on George W. Bush

  1. -21
    JamesBW43's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry_Bagpipe View Post
    Because Bush's margin of victory was less than ''one-half of a percent ...of the votes cast,'' an automatic machine recount was conducted under Section 102.141(4) of the election code, the results of which showed Bush still winning the race but by a diminished margin.

    anyhoo....im so over this discussion since it was almost 15 years ago and its been done ad nauseum. So ill give you the last word
    I thought it was implied that I meant a full manual recount. The whole point of doing it by hand was because the machines weren't picking up all the votes.
    Not every human is a manipulative, opportunistic, letch... or at least that's what I'm told.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesBW43 View Post
    I thought it was implied that I meant a full manual recount. The whole point of doing it by hand was because the machines weren't picking up all the votes.

    I knew I'd get sucked back in. Lol. The machines were picking up all the votes, gore just didnt like the results. Gore wanted to do a manual recount so he could create more votes for him. That's why he wanted recounts in the three most heavily democratic counties. So he could see a card and try to make it a vote for him if there was just a dimple or mark over his name. Hence why the hanging chads and dimpled chads created so much controversy. There was no law in Florida regulating how a manual count should take place since the law stated it needed to be done by machine so gore tried to take advantage of that by dictating what constituted a vote.

    Sandra day oconnor asked David boies, and rightfully so, to why not just use what the voting instructions are to dictate what constituted a vote. That being a fully punctured tab. Gore didn't want that to be the case since that's what the machines counted. Gore wanted democrats arbitrarily deciding in highly democratic counties what constituted a vote since no law was in place to dictate how manual counts are to be done.
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    ohall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesBW43 View Post
    I thought it was implied that I meant a full manual recount. The whole point of doing it by hand was because the machines weren't picking up all the votes.
    Didn't Gore support counting specific counties, counties that were DEM strong holds?
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    Re: History's jury is still out on George W. Bush

    Quote Originally Posted by MadDog 88 View Post
    I think having Obama following him will soften the bashing. History will reflect some of the worst 16 consecutive years have been experienced under those 2.
    Holy crap, we agree twice in one day...the end is nigh!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry_Bagpipe View Post
    I knew I'd get sucked back in. Lol. The machines were picking up all the votes, gore just didnt like the results. Gore wanted to do a manual recount so he could create more votes for him. That's why he wanted recounts in the three most heavily democratic counties. So he could see a card and try to make it a vote for him if there was just a dimple or mark over his name. Hence why the hanging chads and dimpled chads created so much controversy. There was no law in Florida regulating how a manual count should take place since the law stated it needed to be done by machine so gore tried to take advantage of that by dictating what constituted a vote.

    Sandra day oconnor asked David boies, and rightfully so, to why not just use what the voting instructions are to dictate what constituted a vote. That being a fully punctured tab. Gore didn't want that to be the case since that's what the machines counted. Gore wanted democrats arbitrarily deciding in highly democratic counties what constituted a vote since no law was in place to dictate how manual counts are to be done.
    If you think someone who wasn't able to fully punch the voter card doesn't deserve to have their vote counted then I can see where you're coming from (even though I would vehemently disagree), but to describe it as "creating more votes" is a pretty strange way to look at it. The votes are there. They didn't magically appear and they didn't magically indent themselves. Someone tried to vote on that ballot. That's not arbitrary, biased politics, that's physics.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohall View Post
    Didn't Gore support counting specific counties, counties that were DEM strong holds?
    I could care less about Gore, his campaign and what they wanted. Asking for a recount in only those counties was either extremely stupid or extremely underhanded (or both).

    I simply think everyone's vote should've been counted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locke View Post
    Gore won the popular vote Nationally, and in Florida. It took Supreme Court intervention to stop the counting in Florida.
    It's funny how everyone remembers this differently. Did the Supreme Court stop the recount or stop selective recounts because all seven justices agreed that the court-ordered, statewide recount violated the Equal Protection Clause?

    Quote Originally Posted by Locke View Post
    By all accounts, Gore won in 2000 and it was taken from him by the Supreme Court...
    Can you cite any account where Gore actually had lead in the Florida popular vote? A less hyper-partisan person might see it from the point of view that the Court stopped the selective recounts that were trying to change the outcome. An equally hyper-partisan person on the right might believe the Court blocked the attempted stealing of the the election.
    Last edited by GoFins!; 04-23-2013 at 04:45 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesBW43 View Post
    If you think someone who wasn't able to fully punch the voter card doesn't deserve to have their vote counted then I can see where you're coming from (even though I would vehemently disagree), but to describe it as "creating more votes" is a pretty strange way to look at it. The votes are there. They didn't magically appear and they didn't magically indent themselves. Someone tried to vote on that ballot. That's not arbitrary, biased politics, that's physics.
    How do you know what an indent represents? Maybe someone changed their mind as they were voting, maybe someone realized at the last moment they were pressing on the wrong chad. There was some guy during the court case, it might be on youtube, who argued the samething and was made to look the fool during cross examination.

    There was no law in florida dictating how a manual count should be conducted. The voting instructions are to completely perforate a chad. The machines count those votes and by law a machine recount is done.

    Ill tell you want would be unfair. A gore partisan, looking at someones vote card and arbitrarily deciding that a slight mark over al gores name meant that that person really meant to vote for al gore but didnt have the muscular strength to fully punch the card. And then after realizing that they didnt fully puncture the card to still turn it in as their vote thinking that the machince will still know its intents
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locke View Post
    I actually don't think Bin Laden succeeds in his attack had Gore been President. I personally think if anyone else but Bush was President at that time, the attacks don't happen.
    That's some combination of wishful thinking and revisionist history.

    Why did all these attacks happen/succeed while Gore was Vice President?
    2/26/93 World Trade Center (6)
    11/13/95 Saudi Arabia (5)
    6/25/96 Khobar Tower barracks (19)
    8/7/98 US embassy Tanzania (11)
    8/7/98 US embassy Kenya (213)
    10/12/00 USS Cole (17)

    It's hard to imagine this guy being less incompetent than any other President.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...vyJ-1y2A#t=40s

    This displays another difference between those on the left from those on the right; only one side tends to idolize their VP goofballs.
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    JamesBW43's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry_Bagpipe View Post
    How do you know what an indent represents? Maybe someone changed their mind as they were voting, maybe someone realized at the last moment they were pressing on the wrong chad. There was some guy during the court case, it might be on youtube, who argued the samething and was made to look the fool during cross examination.

    There was no law in florida dictating how a manual count should be conducted. The voting instructions are to completely perforate a chad. The machines count those votes and by law a machine recount is done.

    Ill tell you want would be unfair. A gore partisan, looking at someones vote card and arbitrarily deciding that a slight mark over al gores name meant that that person really meant to vote for al gore but didnt have the muscular strength to fully punch the card. And then after realizing that they didnt fully puncture the card to still turn it in as their vote thinking that the machince will still know its intents
    I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you talking about ballots being indented or punched in multiple locations for a single office? If so, obviously any such ballot should be invalidated, but beyond that I'm not sure how you can say an indent means anything other than a person physically applied pressure to that location on the ballot, the exact same action each person took in order to cast a vote. The only difference being whether or not the chad was completely removed.
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