Welcome to FinHeaven Fans Forums! We're glad to have you here. Please feel free to browse the forum. We'd like to invite you to join our community; doing so will enable you to view additional forums and post with our other members.



VIP Members don't see these ads. Join VIP Now
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 41

Thread: With One Pick Left Barring Something Unforeseen....

  1. -31
    ebozzz's Avatar
    Starter

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Sep 2002
    Posts:
    2,125
    vCash:
    2023
    Loc:
    Denver, Colorado
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by Spesh View Post
    I'll agree we have improved this franchise this offseason. We havent improved it to the degree we need to in order to be a playoff contender. And we very much had the opportunity to become one.
    We're a playoff contender right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spesh View Post
    Other then Dion Jordan(which was an exceptional pick) and Ryan Tannehill, it could be argued that this team isnt better then our 2011 team which went 6-10. Now those players will undoubtably get us a better record then the '11 team, but without supplying Tannehill the proper weapons to be successful we wont become the consistent winner we undoubtably want to be.
    In my opinion that would be a failed argument. There is no doubt in my mind that this is a better team....

    Quote Originally Posted by Spesh View Post
    I disagree you cant take the best talent. At least for a franchise in the shape we are in. Perhaps when our roster is overflowing with talent we can start reaching for need, but until then other teams have shown the best way to win is to get as many good players as possible. Either way, even if im 100% dead wrong, we could have walked the line you are talking about. There were players who dropped to us that could have fulfilled both need and talent. We unfortunately decided against selecting them.
    See, that's where I think you are wrong. They went for the best talent with the Jordan & Taylor picks in my opinion. The remaining selections were more need based. With a roster like the one ours is currently, I don't think that you can simply go out there and draft the best player available without any concern for need. We STILL have so many needs! Now, if you are the 49ers or some other team that basically has a roster ripe with quality talent, swing for the fences! I'll guarantee you that even the Niners take a look at what they need....
    ~~~~~~~

    The rhythm of life is a jazz rhythm.

    -Langston Hughes






    Quote Quote  

  2. -32
    Starter

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Jun 2004
    Posts:
    945
    vCash:
    2802
    Loc:
    Miami Florida
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by Spesh View Post
    It tells me Jeff Ireland misjudged the talent we have on this roster. Yet again, Ireland vastly overrates the receivers we have and, yet again, passes on an opportunity to improve this roster in a deep receiving class.

    This receiving core didnt have enough weapons when we had Brandon Marshall, Brian Hartline, and Davone Bess. We dont have enough weapons with Mike Wallace, Brian Hartline, and Brandon Gibson. Not even close. Even if we kept Bess(a roleplayer) we needed a weapon.

    This will reappear during the season. We wont be scoring the amount people expect(at least not from our receivers).
    We didn't have a QB then and the defense wasn't good enough
    Quote Quote  

  3. -33
    joenhre's Avatar
    Starter

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Mar 2006
    Posts:
    1,903
    vCash:
    240
    Loc:
    Philadelphia
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by ITS!MATEO View Post
    Swope was given a 2nd round grade on this board and he went in the 6th round.... That should tell you what fans know


    I knew if we went into the draft with Bess we wouldn't take a receiver. We ended up trading him and STILL didn't take one lol. I got a lot of flack for saying that, but I was right


    Maybe we take one in the 7th, but I doubt it.

    Yes you were right and I believe the offense is going to suffer because Ireland is overrating the talent they have at receiver . Mark my words WR will be a priority going into next years draft whether Ireland is still here or not.
    Quote Quote  

  4. -34
    ITS!MATEO's Avatar
    Perennial All-Pro

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Mar 2008
    Posts:
    3,041
    vCash:
    6981
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by joenhre View Post
    Yes you were right and I believe the offense is going to suffer because Ireland is overrating the talent they have at receiver . Mark my words WR will be a priority going into next years draft whether Ireland is still here or not.
    No way


    Maybe in about 3 years from now, I would agree. That's about how long Wallace will be here before we have to drop his contract.
    2014 Mock Draft

    1. Zack Martin - OT/OG - Notre Dame
    2. Chris Borland - ILB - Wisconsin
    3. C.J. Fiedeorowicz - TE - Iowa
    4. Trai Turner - OG - LSU
    5. Brandon Thomas - OT/OG - Clemson
    6. Storm Johnson - RB - South Florida
    7. Calvin Barnett - DT - Oklahoma State



    Quote Quote  

  5. -35
    joenhre's Avatar
    Starter

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Mar 2006
    Posts:
    1,903
    vCash:
    240
    Loc:
    Philadelphia
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by ITS!MATEO View Post
    No way


    Maybe in about 3 years from now, I would agree. That's about how long Wallace will be here before we have to drop his contract.
    Well we will see but when the team still struggles to score points when Wallace is double covered, Hartline fails to beat his man and Gibson fails to get separation which is the big knock against him. Why do you think the Rams did put any effort into trying to resign Gibson? They went out and got some young talent in the draft in Austin and Bailey. Both those guys have a lot more talent/upside than Gibson could dream of having.
    Quote Quote  

  6. -36
    Spesh's Avatar
    Fat Kid

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Apr 2007
    Posts:
    7,691
    vCash:
    2103
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by ebozzz View Post
    We're a playoff contender right now.

    In my opinion that would be a failed argument. There is no doubt in my mind that this is a better team....

    See, that's where I think you are wrong. They went for the best talent with the Jordan & Taylor picks in my opinion. The remaining selections were more need based. With a roster like the one ours is currently, I don't think that you can simply go out there and draft the best player available without any concern for need. We STILL have so many needs! Now, if you are the 49ers or some other team that basically has a roster ripe with quality talent, swing for the fences! I'll guarantee you that even the Niners take a look at what they need....
    Only this season will tell. But we did not have enough weapons to compete when we had Marshall, Hartline, and Bess. We do not have enough weapons with Wallace, Hartline, and Gibson. Perhaps Hartline will turn into a stud and Gibson will become a sensational weapon. But i tend to doubt it very much.

    And theres no doubt in my mind that the teams are comparable. Quarterback is largely the only difference. We seem to be at a stand-off.

    Again and again drafting for need leads to the demise of franchises. Time and again franchises like the Giants, Packers, Steelers, Ravens, and now the 49'ers simply scoop up what falls to them and they flourish. You seem to be saying that teams should draft for need first then worry about talent years down the road. I say we need to do the reverse. The only "need" you absolutely have to fill is quarterback. And personally, im of the opinion that high quarterback prospects are either a franchise players or not. If they are you take them, if they arent you pass on them. So in that light, you never reach for quarterback.

    If you focus on need, you are always a year behind everyone else. You are worried about what happened last season and not whats happening next season. In a vacuum that would be fine but we are not in a vacuum. Players grow older, players get injured and cant recover, players leave for free agency, players take a step back in their development. The key isnt filling a need, the key is filling a need before it becomes a need. The good franchises do that by drafting the best talent available. The bad ones wait to long and have the situation blow up in their face.

    If you have enough talented players you can cover up your weaknesses with gameplanning. The Vikings had a serious weakness at receiver last season. Instead of making some absurd midseason trade, they handed the rock to Peterson(talent) who carried them into the playoffs. The Giants had Osi and Justin Tuck a few years ago, do you think they regret drafting JPP?
    The Lions lost alot of games last year, but can you say they shouldnt have drafted how they did in years past? They have among the best quarterbacks, receivers, and defensive tackles in the league. They have a solid foundation from which to build because they have players talented enough to make a difference in any and every game. As well, despite losing Titus Young to insanity, they didnt feel they had a particular hole at receiver. Why? Because they filled that hole with Ryan Broyles before it became a problem.
    "I'm not here to be a distraction," Pouncey said.
    http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10...ogical-testing
    Quote Quote  

  7. -37
    Starter

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Jun 2004
    Posts:
    945
    vCash:
    2802
    Loc:
    Miami Florida
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by Spesh View Post
    Only this season will tell. But we did not have enough weapons to compete when we had Marshall, Hartline, and Bess. We do not have enough weapons with Wallace, Hartline, and Gibson. Perhaps Hartline will turn into a stud and Gibson will become a sensational weapon. But i tend to doubt it very much.

    And theres no doubt in my mind that the teams are comparable. Quarterback is largely the only difference. We seem to be at a stand-off.

    Again and again drafting for need leads to the demise of franchises. Time and again franchises like the Giants, Packers, Steelers, Ravens, and now the 49'ers simply scoop up what falls to them and they flourish. You seem to be saying that teams should draft for need first then worry about talent years down the road. I say we need to do the reverse. The only "need" you absolutely have to fill is quarterback. And personally, im of the opinion that high quarterback prospects are either a franchise players or not. If they are you take them, if they arent you pass on them. So in that light, you never reach for quarterback.

    If you focus on need, you are always a year behind everyone else. You are worried about what happened last season and not whats happening next season. In a vacuum that would be fine but we are not in a vacuum. Players grow older, players get injured and cant recover, players leave for free agency, players take a step back in their development. The key isnt filling a need, the key is filling a need before it becomes a need. The good franchises do that by drafting the best talent available. The bad ones wait to long and have the situation blow up in their face.

    If you have enough talented players you can cover up your weaknesses with gameplanning. The Vikings had a serious weakness at receiver last season. Instead of making some absurd midseason trade, they handed the rock to Peterson(talent) who carried them into the playoffs. The Giants had Osi and Justin Tuck a few years ago, do you think they regret drafting JPP?
    The Lions lost alot of games last year, but can you say they shouldnt have drafted how they did in years past? They have among the best quarterbacks, receivers, and defensive tackles in the league. They have a solid foundation from which to build because they have players talented enough to make a difference in any and every game. As well, despite losing Titus Young to insanity, they didnt feel they had a particular hole at receiver. Why? Because they filled that hole with Ryan Broyles before it became a problem.
    Soooo what would you have done differently??
    Quote Quote  

  8. -38
    ebozzz's Avatar
    Starter

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Sep 2002
    Posts:
    2,125
    vCash:
    2023
    Loc:
    Denver, Colorado
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by Spesh View Post
    Only this season will tell. But we did not have enough weapons to compete when we had Marshall, Hartline, and Bess. We do not have enough weapons with Wallace, Hartline, and Gibson. Perhaps Hartline will turn into a stud and Gibson will become a sensational weapon. But i tend to doubt it very much.
    Man, our entire receiving core is much better than the one we had on that team. We had Cats in that group because they were special teams monsters who didn't show much as receivers. We have better depth now. Now, you can argue that the top three guys on each squad are comparable. But, I still would say that the current trio would have to get the crown as they offer a lot more versatility. We also have a TE of the caliber of Keller. Our RB situation looks to be more promising top to bottom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spesh View Post
    And theres no doubt in my mind that the teams are comparable. Quarterback is largely the only difference. We seem to be at a stand-off.
    No standoff in my mind. The 2013 Dolphins are a much better team! Both defensively and offensively.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spesh View Post
    Again and again drafting for need leads to the demise of franchises. Time and again franchises like the Giants, Packers, Steelers, Ravens, and now the 49'ers simply scoop up what falls to them and they flourish. You seem to be saying that teams should draft for need first then worry about talent years down the road. I say we need to do the reverse. The only "need" you absolutely have to fill is quarterback. And personally, im of the opinion that high quarterback prospects are either a franchise players or not. If they are you take them, if they arent you pass on them. So in that light, you never reach for quarterback.
    Each of those teams that you named have superior rosters overall to the Dolphins. And, I don't think that the Phins have drafted solely for need. There's been a mixed approach...

    Quote Originally Posted by Spesh View Post
    If you focus on need, you are always a year behind everyone else. You are worried about what happened last season and not whats happening next season. In a vacuum that would be fine but we are not in a vacuum. Players grow older, players get injured and cant recover, players leave for free agency, players take a step back in their development. The key isnt filling a need, the key is filling a need before it becomes a need. The good franchises do that by drafting the best talent available. The bad ones wait to long and have the situation blow up in their face.
    The good teams are able to maybe go more BPA because they have other players they can count on if their decision to do so fails...

    Quote Originally Posted by Spesh View Post
    If you have enough talented players you can cover up your weaknesses with gameplanning. The Vikings had a serious weakness at receiver last season. Instead of making some absurd midseason trade, they handed the rock to Peterson(talent) who carried them into the playoffs. The Giants had Osi and Justin Tuck a few years ago, do you think they regret drafting JPP?
    Question.... Do you think that G-Men felt more comfortable taking a chance on JPP because they knew that they had talented players like Osi & Tuck already in the fold? Do you honestly think that they would make the same choice if they were not as deep along their defensive line? Come on Man...

    Quote Originally Posted by Spesh View Post
    The Lions lost alot of games last year, but can you say they shouldnt have drafted how they did in years past? They have among the best quarterbacks, receivers, and defensive tackles in the league. They have a solid foundation from which to build because they have players talented enough to make a difference in any and every game. As well, despite losing Titus Young to insanity, they didnt feel they had a particular hole at receiver. Why? Because they filled that hole with Ryan Broyles before it became a problem.
    Bad example with the Lions. In my opinion their problem has not necessarily been lack of talent. It's been poor coaching, developmental issues and front office blunders. So, the thing is that their roster has had more talent.
    Quote Quote  

  9. -39
    Spesh's Avatar
    Fat Kid

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Apr 2007
    Posts:
    7,691
    vCash:
    2103
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by JTech194 View Post
    Soooo what would you have done differently??
    Traded up for Keenan Allen or taken Stedman Bailey.

    Allen would be preferred because the man is almost built for the west coast offense. He could line up in all the positions and would have been a great 1.5 receiver. Kind of like Anquin Boldin or Greg Jennings. Guys who are more talented and productive then other number 2's but not quite the match up nightmares of a true number 1. It would have allowed us to get really creative with our offense, moving him and Hartline all over the place. Would he have taken awhile to recover from his injury? Yes. But it would have been worth the investment for years after his rookie season.

    If we had walked out of this draft with Jordan, Jamar, and Allen, Ireland could have spent to rest of the draft on offensive lineman and you wouldnt hear me complain. Well, not really complain anyways, i would have been forced to make jokes.
    Quote Quote  

  10. -40
    Spesh's Avatar
    Fat Kid

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Apr 2007
    Posts:
    7,691
    vCash:
    2103
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by ebozzz View Post
    Man, our entire receiving core is much better than the one we had on that team.
    No it isnt. Marshall is better then Wallace. He has been vastly more productive and there is more to his game. Marshall can make more contested catches, can make more plays after a catch, and can block better. Wallace is faster. And is Wallace that much faster? Marshall runs a 4.54 40. Wallace runs a what, mid 4.3? Id sacrifice the few tenths of a second for Marshall. Oh, and Marshall's production was higher when he had Cutler, Orton, and Chad friggin Henne as quarterback. Hartline is the same. Bess and Gibson are a push, and thats assuming Gibson gets over his drops. Which he didnt in St. Louis.

    We had Cats in that group because they were special teams monsters who didn't show much as receivers. We have better depth now.
    I assume your refering to Matthews. When did our former 7th round pick become a stud? Everyone keeps saying it, i havent seen it. Tell me when he made his probowl appearance.

    We have better depth now. Now, you can argue that the top three guys on each squad are comparable. But, I still would say that the current trio would have to get the crown as they offer a lot more versatility. We also have a TE of the caliber of Keller. Our RB situation looks to be more promising top to bottom.
    Not a single running back on this team is proven. We dont even know if they can stay healthy much less compete better. Reggie was very productive for us. Keller is a better receiver then Fasano but is more limited also. Plus Fasano never had a serious injury for us. Push.

    No standoff in my mind. The 2013 Dolphins are a much better team! Both defensively and offensively.
    Keep telling yourself that. Repeating something over and over again doesnt make it reality. Youve offered no explanation except for a blanket statement. I'll take that with the same confidence i did when other people declared we are going to the playoffs each of the previous offseasons. You know, the offseasons before our 4 consecutive losing seasons.

    Each of those teams that you named have superior rosters overall to the Dolphins. And, I don't think that the Phins have drafted solely for need. There's been a mixed approach...
    Yes, and they got superior rosters by drafted talented players. Not focusing on need. Which was my point. And the Phins admitted they draft for need. They have a horizontal draft board. Sure, they take talented players and sometimes a specific player causes them to move past their board, but they filter everything by position(and subsequently, which positions they need).

    The good teams are able to maybe go more BPA because they have other players they can count on if their decision to do so fails...
    And they got the superior roster because they drafted BPA in the past. They could then continue to take the BPA because they knew they had a talented roster. No one intends to draft busts. Everyone thinks they are drafting good players.

    Question.... Do you think that G-Men felt more comfortable taking a chance on JPP because they knew that they had talented players like Osi & Tuck already in the fold? Do you honestly think that they would make the same choice if they were not as deep along their defensive line? Come on Man...
    You mean like how they took a chance on the corner Prince a year or two later despite being thin at that position? They draft for talent. Yes, they would have drafted JPP regardless of who played that position. They didnt draft JPP with the thinking "well, this guy is going to bust but hey lets take him anyways because we already have players there and also so we can give our opponents a chance". They said "this guy is a freak and we need him". By the way, love this past quote. First you argue teams should draft for need. Now your insisting the Giants drafted JPP because they already had their need filled at that position.

    Bad example with the Lions. In my opinion their problem has not necessarily been lack of talent. It's been poor coaching, developmental issues and front office blunders. So, the thing is that their roster has had more talent.
    Exactly my point. That roster is stacked. I didnt assign blame one way or another. I just pointed out they are in a great position because their roster is talented. And how did they get in that great position of having a talented roster.....could it be because they drafted talented players instead of focusing on holes? Im not sure, lets ask their new offensive lineman Ezekiel Ansah.
    Quote Quote  

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 26
    Last Post: 04-29-2011, 11:06 AM
  2. Replies: 33
    Last Post: 04-22-2011, 03:17 PM
  3. Barring any unexpected trade.....
    By phinfan2003 in forum Miami Dolphins Forum
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 08-22-2010, 10:15 PM
  4. pick ur man with what's left!
    By SR 7 in forum NFL Draft Forum
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 01-24-2007, 03:19 AM
  5. Top Picks Left for Phins 1st pick.
    By MDolphins2003 in forum Miami Dolphins Forum
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 04-26-2003, 07:11 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •