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Thread: The one thing that concerns me about Jordan

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    DKphin's Avatar
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    The one thing that concerns me about Jordan

    I know he was coming off labrum surgery and that is why he did not participate in the BP testing at the combine. I have a real concern about how strong this kid is going to be at the POA. I know his wingspan of 83" puts him at a disadvantage when it comes to testing, but with his build and only weighing around 250, I have concerns. JT was slim for the position, but the guy was strong as an Ox. I remember he and Sapp in BP competitions and he would consistently beat Warren. There was a player that played for UF, Huey Richardson. All-American and mister everything at UF. He got drafted by Pittsburgh in the 1st rd of the '91 draft. He was 6'5" and 229lbs. and never did anything in the Pros. Dion looks a lot like Richardson which puts me a little on edge when I think about the comparison. Does anyone have any info on strength numbers? Because there is absolutely no info that I could find on the web.
    "It happens all the time," Taylor said. "It's not an exact science and personnel guys aren't the end-all, be-all. " Jason Taylor,2011
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    I'm not as worried about this, depending on his position. If he's asked to be a base defensive end then I might worry a little more. But if he's played correctly, he'll be fine.

    He's a lot more savvy with blockers coming out to him in run blocking than when he has to go to them in pass rush. Someone said it best when you've got a tall wiry guy like this either they're too light on their feet and easily moves, or they're a lot stronger and tougher than you'd have thought. He's more the latter.

    Stopping the run from his position as an OLB was never my concern about him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ckparrothead View Post
    I'm not as worried about this, depending on his position. If he's asked to be a base defensive end then I might worry a little more. But if he's played correctly, he'll be fine.

    He's a lot more savvy with blockers coming out to him in run blocking than when he has to go to them in pass rush. Someone said it best when you've got a tall wiry guy like this either they're too light on their feet and easily moves, or they're a lot stronger and tougher than you'd have thought. He's more the latter.

    Stopping the run from his position as an OLB was never my concern about him.
    CK. Went through your Twitter timeline....

    What is your grade on the pick?
    Can he line up opposite Wake every down?
    how do you see him performing in the NFL?

    Talk to me...
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrinidadDolfan View Post
    CK. Went through your Twitter timeline....

    What is your grade on the pick?
    Can he line up opposite Wake every down?
    how do you see him performing in the NFL?

    Talk to me...
    To be exact, he was my 9th best player in the draft. Would I have personally traded up from 12 to 3 to get him? No. Does that mean I don't like him? Not at all. I've been talking this guy up for about a year, since June of 2012 when someone turned me onto him. NFL evaluators have been talking him up for about that same length of time, some of them even voting for HIM over the likes of Ndamukong Suh, Jason Pierre-Paul, etc...as a guy that will be the best defensive player in the NFL in 5 years.

    He's a catch.

    Is he the best catch we could have made? Personally I don't think so. Did we end up giving up a valuable pick in pick #42 in order to make that catch? Yes we did.

    The only thing I am worried about with him is whether he will be used correctly by the staff. I would LIKE to buy hook, line and sinker that the staff knows what they're doing in all cases with all players...they're professionals, they know way more football than I do, but that doesn't mean they've always been right when it comes to marrying the evaluation of a player with what we should do with him on the field.

    When I watched Richard Marshall's work at Arizona and Carolina I saw a guy that was troublesome if you put him on the perimeter as a starting corner, but who actually may make a good safety. They stuck him at corner. He struggled, before he got hurt.

    When I looked at Olivier Vernon I saw a multiple player with really surprising stout and strong hands for his size, a guy that moves well in space and is flexible, but a guy who really does not rush the passer off the edge very well at all. I thought it would be nice to use him as a multiple player on the edge in run situations, and I thought you could reduce him down and rush him over a guard in pass situations a la Pernell McPhee. You could do that because even though he's not a savvy pass rusher, his athleticism advantage over guards makes him dangerous. In response, guards will try and maximize their physicality advantage over him in order to cancel his athletic advantage. That would work if he wasn't so suprisingly stout at the point of attack with such strong hands. But I think the surprisingly good and strong hands helps nullify the guards' primary weapon against him, allowing him to maximize his advantage in athleticism against them. That's my running theory. Either way, watch a few games of him in college and you know he's weak coming off the edge as a pass rusher. What did the Dolphins do with him? They trained him on as a pass rush SPECIALIST from the wing. A specialist! Only later did they start to realize some of the things I would have guessed and they started focusing on taking advantage of the fact that he's a multiple type of player. But they never explored the inside rush possibility.

    Finally there's Dimitri Patterson. For years I've watched this guy and tracked his metrics. It's pretty clear he's a good slot corner that consistently gets in trouble when asked to get out on the boundary. Miami claims him off waivers from Cleveland. What do they do? Well, he spent a total of 4 snaps in the slot, and 49 snaps on the perimeter. Before getting hurt. Oops.

    You could also argue that they never quite used Sean Smith properly.

    These guys are the professionals. They know a lot about what they're doing. I give them a TON of credit for taking guys that are in some key ways difficult to scheme properly like Cameron Wake and Koa Misi, and they found ways to make them flourish. But it doesn't stop them from being wrong every now and then.

    What I worry about with a guy like Dion Jordan is he's not a straight forward player. He's a complicated player. He presents certain surprising skills, and certain surprising weaknesses. Figuring out the best way to make him a stellar force in the league is not going to be easy, though I think it is doable. So until I see the results, I'm going to be just a little bit nervous.
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    Lets get those balls deep!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ckparrothead View Post
    I'm not as worried about this, depending on his position. If he's asked to be a base defensive end then I might worry a little more. But if he's played correctly, he'll be fine.

    He's a lot more savvy with blockers coming out to him in run blocking than when he has to go to them in pass rush. Someone said it best when you've got a tall wiry guy like this either they're too light on their feet and easily moves, or they're a lot stronger and tougher than you'd have thought. He's more the latter.

    Stopping the run from his position as an OLB was never my concern about him.
    especially with our beast dl's
    taking up blockers. he should be taking on fullbacks or tight ends, which won't really be fair.
    "hey atleast I'm housebroken!"
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    I was incorrect. His wingspan is only 81.44". Still a disadvantage in testing.
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    Cam Wake 91Tannehill 172013 Dolphins Logo1972 Dolphins Logo
    I think he's in great shape and should be able to bounce back from surgery. He's also going to try and put on 10 pounds if muscle before the season starts. Assume he puts on 20 pounds in the next few years and is healthy, I think he is going to be a beast.
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    I like Jordan, and if we were going to trade up, that's probably the most valuable player in the long run, so I'm OK with the pick despite preferring to keep our 2nd and take Eifert.

    But, Jordan is definitely a risk/reward pick. He is a pass rusher who did not dominate competition despite having an offense that scored so much the other team was always in pass mode.

    Physically, he is the classic tweener, and mirrors some of our worst picks historically, such as Eric Kummerow and John Boss from an earlier age, and past draft enigmas like Aundray Bruce and Jamal Anderson.

    However, he has limited experience and excellent length and speed. Recently, players like that have succeeded, such as Aldon Smith, JPP, and Chandler Jones. But, every one of those guys has drastically more power than Jordan, so he probably needs to bulk up significantly to have a chance at greatness.

    Furthermore, those body types project far more favorably to the 34 OLB than to 43 DE's until he gains a good 30+ pounds of muscle and improves his hand work.

    He is very raw as a pass rusher, so he needs to concentrate on improving his hand work, learning to use his leverage better, and developing several more pass rush moves to add to simply running around end.

    I wouldn't expect greatness overnight, but he has the athletic ability and work ethic to get there, IMHO.
    "I want guys who want to make an impact on and off the field. Good human beings. Guys who want to get better. Guys who want to improve. They want to be great, want to win. Those types of guys we can work with every day." --Joe Philbin
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    foozool13's Avatar
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    Jordan will not play much on run downs. He is going to come in on obvious passing downs and will be used in coverage as well. If he were going to be our starting DE this year then I would have some worries as well, but that wont be the case until next year. By next year with 1 year under his belt and a second offseason with Wake and the rest of this D-line he should be fine.
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    To be the man, you gotta beat the man!

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    Re: The one thing that concerns me about Jordan

    While Wake isn't the best against the run, he's improved drastically. I have faith in this coaching staff for once and they will get the most out of this kids potential.

    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
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