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Thread: Precision in Nature = Evidence of God

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    Quote Originally Posted by defiant View Post
    God made nature so precise. That must be why millions of new born babies die of debilitating diseases and illnesses.
    ALTER2EGO -to- DEFIANT:
    You are referring to human imperfection due to sin. The first two humans (Adam and Eve) were created with perfect physical bodies and had the opportunity for immortality. But, they chose to reject Jehovah's instructions. So he withdrew from them the opportunity for everlasting life and they immediately began to die. They then passed death on to their offspring: the rest of the human race.


    "That is why, just as THROUGH ONE MAN [Adam] SIN ENTERED INTO THE WORLD and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned." (Romans 5:12)


    Clearly, what is happening to humans in no way affects precision elsewhere (the millions of planets in the heavens and their relationship to each other, the example in my OP of the elements on the Periodic Table, our fine-tuned universe, etc.)


    ~***~
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alter2Ego View Post
    ALTER2EGO -to- DEFIANT:
    You are referring to human imperfection due to sin. The first two humans (Adam and Eve) were created with perfect physical bodies and had the opportunity for immortality. But, they chose to reject Jehovah's instructions. So he withdrew from them the opportunity for everlasting life and they immediately began to die. They then passed death on to their offspring: the rest of the human race.


    "That is why, just as THROUGH ONE MAN [Adam] SIN ENTERED INTO THE WORLD and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned." (Romans 5:12)


    Clearly, what is happening to humans in no way affects precision elsewhere (the millions of planets in the heavens and their relationship to each other, the example in my OP of the elements on the Periodic Table, our fine-tuned universe, etc.)


    ~***~
    So if the sins of Adam and Eve doomed the rest of mankind to death, wouldn't that make them worse than Hitler and Mao and Stalin... by like a lot?

    I've also got to admire the "precision" involved in the Andromeda Galaxy heading on a collision course with the Milky Way, which is sure to be a bummer for whatever plankton based lifeform is running the planet in 4 billion years. But look on the bright side, the sun will have turned into a Red Giant by then, flooding the Earth with life scorching radiation like a stellar Dr. Kevorkian... that's assuming we're not pulled apart by the tidal forces involved in that process before all life is essentially microwaved out of existence. Things will definitely cool down a lot after that, though. The Sun will eventually lose a lot of it's mass and become a white dwarf, which will almost certainly push the orbit of the Earth out of the "habitable zone" necessary for life as we know it, leaving this balmy little planet of ours with the surface temperature of Dick Cheney's balls.

    But other than that.... I'm with you. Great plan!
    Last edited by TheWalrus; 05-21-2013 at 11:40 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alter2Ego View Post
    ALTER2EGO -to- DEFIANT:
    You are referring to human imperfection due to sin. The first two humans (Adam and Eve) were created with perfect physical bodies and had the opportunity for immortality. But, they chose to reject Jehovah's instructions. So he withdrew from them the opportunity for everlasting life and they immediately began to die. They then passed death on to their offspring: the rest of the human race.


    "That is why, just as THROUGH ONE MAN [Adam] SIN ENTERED INTO THE WORLD and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned." (Romans 5:12)


    Clearly, what is happening to humans in no way affects precision elsewhere (the millions of planets in the heavens and their relationship to each other, the example in my OP of the elements on the Periodic Table, our fine-tuned universe, etc.)


    ~***~
    Oh, so now the tune has changed. You agree that nature actually isn't precise after examining all the evidence instead of that which confirms what you started out believing, and now you are justifying it by saying it's humans fault.

    Your original argument: Nature is so precise, god MUST exist!

    Your comments now: OK I see how nature isn't so precise, but it's humans fault!

    Which is it?

    Also how in the world is it OK to you to justify the early deaths of millions of babies because Eve ate a magical apple off of a tree, not knowing later that it would be responsible for the deaths of millions of babies? And god did nothing to prevent it? And continues punishing said babies to this day? Over an apple? That Eve didn't know would effect the world as it did?

    Pretty awesome god you have there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by defiant View Post
    Oh, so now the tune has changed. You agree that nature actually isn't precise after examining all the evidence instead of that which confirms what you started out believing, and now you are justifying it by saying it's humans fault.

    Your original argument: Nature is so precise, god MUST exist!

    Your comments now: OK I see how nature isn't so precise, but it's humans fault!

    Which is it?

    Also how in the world is it OK to you to justify the early deaths of millions of babies because Eve ate a magical apple off of a tree, not knowing later that it would be responsible for the deaths of millions of babies? And god did nothing to prevent it? And continues punishing said babies to this day? Over an apple? That Eve didn't know would effect the world as it did?

    Pretty awesome god you have there.
    ALTER2EGO -to- DEFIANT:
    Even a human who eventually dies is so complex that the best scientists cannot duplicate something as simple as a human limb. Ask any amputee who has been provided with artificial limbs, and see what they will tell you.

    In any event, I am waiting for you to explain how the first 60-discovered elements on the Periodic Table are precise. So much so, that it was possible for scientists to accurately predict the characteristics of the missing elements. I gave the definition of "accident" and "spontaneous" in my OP. So how do you account for the precision among the elements on the Periodic Table? Is that an example of accident/spontaneous event or intelligent design?
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    Precision in Nature = Evidence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Alter2Ego View Post
    ALTER2EGO -to- DEFIANT:
    Even a human who eventually dies is so complex that the best scientists cannot duplicate something as simple as a human limb. Ask any amputee who has been provided with artificial limbs, and see what they will tell you.

    In any event, I am waiting for you to explain how the first 60-discovered elements on the Periodic Table are precise. So much so, that it was possible for scientists to accurately predict the characteristics of the missing elements. I gave the definition of "accident" and "spontaneous" in my OP. So how do you account for the precision among the elements on the Periodic Table? Is that an example of accident/spontaneous event or intelligent design?
    So I'm confused, the laws of physics, which by definition are precise, prove the existence of some kind of deity?

    So far as what scientists can "duplicate", scientists can create machines that can do calculations faster than the human mind and can send probes to Saturn, when at the beginning of my grandfather's lifetime there was no such thing as a television.

    I suppose though when a scientist can create a limb that functions to your liking, it will be proof that there is a deity also . . . and around and around the circle goes.

    One question though . . . Is there any way, even in theory, that the existence of this deity can be disproven? If you can't come up with anything plausible, you're speaking on faith alone. That's fine of course, just accept it for what it is.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Alter2Ego View Post
    ALTER2EGO -to- DEFIANT:
    Even a human who eventually dies is so complex that the best scientists cannot duplicate something as simple as a human limb. Ask any amputee who has been provided with artificial limbs, and see what they will tell you.

    In any event, I am waiting for you to explain how the first 60-discovered elements on the Periodic Table are precise. So much so, that it was possible for scientists to accurately predict the characteristics of the missing elements. I gave the definition of "accident" and "spontaneous" in my OP. So how do you account for the precision among the elements on the Periodic Table? Is that an example of accident/spontaneous event or intelligent design?
    Apparently god has trouble too. Why doesn't god heal amputees? Since science and medicine are commonly used as patch jobs for god's ****-ups, nature doesn't seem so precise.

    You probably think we would all freeze to death if we were 10 feet further from the sun too.
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    The periodic table is not in any way, shape, or form evidence of a god. You are going to convince exactly 0 non-believers over the span of your entire lifetime using that argument.
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    Quote Originally Posted by defiant View Post
    Oh, so now the tune has changed. You agree that nature actually isn't precise after examining all the evidence instead of that which confirms what you started out believing, and now you are justifying it by saying it's humans fault.

    Your original argument: Nature is so precise, god MUST exist!

    Your comments now: OK I see how nature isn't so precise, but it's humans fault!

    Which is it?

    Also how in the world is it OK to you to justify the early deaths of millions of babies because Eve ate a magical apple off of a tree, not knowing later that it would be responsible for the deaths of millions of babies? And god did nothing to prevent it? And continues punishing said babies to this day? Over an apple? That Eve didn't know would effect the world as it did?

    Pretty awesome god you have there.
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