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Thread: Precision in Nature = Evidence of God

  1. -31
    MAYHEM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alter2Ego View Post
    ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:

    For the average person, precision indicates that an intelligent person guided the outcome. According to Webster's New World College Dictionary, the word "precision" is defined as follows:

    "the quality of being precise; exactness, accuracy"


    The reverse of precision is imprecision/inaccuracy/inexactness, which is always the result of an accident or a spontaneous event that happens by chance with no one guiding the outcome. Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary defines an accident as:

    "a nonessential event that HAPPENS BY CHANCE and has undesirable or unfortunate results." (Source: Websters New Collegiate Dictionary)



    Notice that an accident, by definition, is something unplanned aka it "happened by chance." Notice the similarity of the definition for "spontaneous" (as in "spontaneous event").


    DEFINITION OF "SPONTANEOUS":
    "Spontaneous means unplanned or done on impulse."
    http://www.yourdictionary.com/spontaneous




    AGRUMENT #1 FOR AN INTELLIGENT CREATOR:

    Scientific evidence shows there is extreme precision in everything around us in the natural world. This precision renders the evolution theory and Big Bang theory mere fiction, because both theories rely on accidents or spontaneous events. Precision leaves no room for error or for accidental events. Rather, precision requires deliberation.

    Take, for example, the first 60 elements that were discovered on the Periodic Table of the Elements of planet earth. Some of those 60 elements are gases and are therefore invisible to the human eye. The atoms--from which the Earth's elements are made--are specifically related to one another. In turn, the elements--e.g. arsenic, bismuth, chromium, gold, krypton--reflect a distinct, natural numeral order based upon the structure of their atoms. This is a proven LAW.

    The precision in the order of the elements made it possible for scientists such as Mendeleyev, Ramsey, Moseley, and Bohr to theorize the existence of unknown elements and their characteristics. These elements were later discovered, just as predicted. Because of the distinct numerical order of the elements, the word LAW is applied to the Periodic Table of the Elements. (Sources: (1) The McGraw-Hill Encyclopedia of Science & Technology, (2) "Periodic Law," from Encyclopdia Britannica, Vol. VII, p. 878, copyright 1978, (3) The Hutchinson Dictionary of Scientific Biography)


    SIDE NOTE: Laws found in nature, as defined by Webster's New World Dictionary, are:

    "a sequence of events that have been observed to occur with UNVARYING UNIFORMITY under the same conditions."


    QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION:
    1.
    Were it not for the precise relationship among the first 60 discovered elements on the Periodic Table, would scientists have been able to accurately predict the existence of forms of matter that at the time were unknown?

    2. Could the precise law within the first 60 discovered elements (on the Periodic Table) have resulted by chance aka spontaneously aka by accident? Or is this evidence for the existence an intelligent Designer/God who guided the outcome?

    3. Evolution and Big Bang theories both rely upon things happening by chance aka at random. If evolution or Big Bang were credible explanations for the existence of life on earth or the existence of millions of planets in the heavens, how do either theory account for the Periodic Table of the Elements of planet earth in which the first 60 discovered elements are so precise, and so interrelated with one another, that the Periodic Table has been assigned the word "LAW"?
    Dictonarys and encyclopedias will never prove or disprove if god exists. Neither will a periodic table. Or a court ruling. What each individual holds in theyre heart is what matters, And that is seldom changed.
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    Precision in Nature = Evidence of God

    The one question AlterEgo completely glossed over for which he has no answer to:

    If there is proof for a divine designer, where is the evidence that it is the Judeo-Christian depiction of a divine designer?

    That notion doesn't make sense considering that there are many religious beliefs in a divine creator that predate Judaism.

    If Yahweh were real, wouldn't the earliest known men have formed a religion around Him, instead of the many polytheistic beliefs that dominated ancient humans? Especially considering that He appeared to be much more visible in the lives of humans if we are to believe the stories of the Bible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkapePhin View Post
    The one question AlterEgo completely glossed over for which he has no answer to:

    If there is proof for a divine designer, where is the evidence that it is the Judeo-Christian depiction of a divine designer?

    That notion doesn't make sense considering that there are many religious beliefs in a divine creator that predate Judaism.

    If Yahweh were real, wouldn't the earliest known men have formed a religion around Him, instead of the many polytheistic beliefs that dominated ancient humans? Especially considering that He appeared to be much more visible in the lives of humans if we are to believe the stories of the Bible.
    Or how about "who made the designer?"
    Peace and Humptiness Forever


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    Precision in Nature = Evidence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by NY8123 View Post
    Or how about "who made the designer?"
    They have an answer for that... God is the beginning. Even though that defies their logic that they push on others that "everything that exists must have a designer".

    That being said, I attend Catholic Church every Sunday for my fiancée and there are definitely some benefits to religion, at least my church.

    As I see it, for many, God is community. That is the main draw of religion for most people, tradition and community. If there weren't a place for religious folks to share their faith with a like-minded community, it wouldn't last long. The power of community can be quite uplifting if the congregation has a mind for good.

    Unfortunately, those who obsess on the "letter of the word" and the supernatural aspects of the creation myth give the whole thing a bad name to those with inquiring minds.

    But I also think a life devoid of spirituality and community is not fulfilling for most. I am equally frustrated with the hardcore atheists that sneer at every aspect of faith as I am with those of AlterEgo's ilk.

    As for my own faith, I am pretty much a humanist/pantheist. Somewhere between Kurt Vonnegut and Alan Watts. If I were to align myself with a mainstream religion, it would probably be Buddhism, which to me has a useful philosophy with useful tools to become a better person and appreciate life.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkapePhin View Post
    They have an answer for that... God is the beginning. Even though that defies their logic that they push on others that "everything that exists must have a designer".

    That being said, I attend Catholic Church every Sunday for my fiancée and there are definitely some benefits to religion, at least my church.

    As I see it, for many, God is community. That is the main draw of religion for most people, tradition and community. If there weren't a place for religious folks to share their faith with a like-minded community, it wouldn't last long. The power of community can be quite uplifting if the congregation has a mind for good.

    Unfortunately, those who obsess on the "letter of the word" and the supernatural aspects of the creation myth give the whole thing a bad name to those with inquiring minds.

    But I also think a life devoid of spirituality and community is not fulfilling for most. I am equally frustrated with the hardcore atheists that sneer at every aspect of faith as I am with those of AlterEgo's ilk.

    As for my own faith, I am pretty much a humanist/pantheist. Somewhere between Kurt Vonnegut and Alan Watts. If I were to align myself with a mainstream religion, it would probably be Buddhism, which to me has a useful philosophy with useful tools to become a better person and appreciate life.
    I'm not going to lie, I'm Catholic, I was raised Catholic but I'm also a scientist/engineer by trade. The two tend to conflict each other but it doesn't take a devoutly religious person to understand that there are simply things that cannot and will never be understood. The more you learn the less you know.

    The concept of God is understandable because we as humans defined what it means to be a subject of God and what it means to be religious. While God itself may not be understandable and undefinable what it means to honor God is. The same can be said of any following or non-following of religion. Like I have said to many a believer and non-believer, I can give a case where everyone is right given the definitions placed around all religious and non-religious beliefs.

    I can do so because I am human and humans made the definitions based on the collection of knowledge from humanity even if the subject of the concept is undefinable the concept is defined based on a definition as understood by humans.

    I'm smart enough to know that there are things in the universe that I do not understand, that no one understands and that in and of itself is godly by the definition that humanity has placed around the word. So simply by definition science can never prove or disprove of god so the concept is valid no matter the outcome but so is the opposite argument and that is also based on definition. It is foolish to persecute someone for faith, because faith by definition is a trust in something which there is no proof of, whether religious or atheist there is faith and by definitions that means god is possible or impossible depending on faith.

    But either way my opinion is based on faith and faith is after all what everyone has experienced at some point in their life and by definition faith is a belief in the unknown.
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    Alter2Ego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAYHEM View Post
    Dictonarys and encyclopedias will never prove or disprove if god exists. Neither will a periodic table. Or a court ruling. What each individual holds in theyre heart is what matters, And that is seldom changed.
    ALTER2EGO -to- MAYHEM:

    Why? Because that's what you opine?

    Considering that you have not presented a single example of repeated accidental precision in human creations, and considering that I used a scientific argument in my OP, why should your opinion be taken above Scientific Law?

    Let me know.
    "That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkapePhin View Post
    The one question AlterEgo completely glossed over for which he has no answer to:

    If there is proof for a divine designer, where is the evidence that it is the Judeo-Christian depiction of a divine designer?

    That notion doesn't make sense considering that there are many religious beliefs in a divine creator that predate Judaism.

    If Yahweh were real, wouldn't the earliest known men have formed a religion around Him, instead of the many polytheistic beliefs that dominated ancient humans? Especially considering that He appeared to be much more visible in the lives of humans if we are to believe the stories of the Bible.
    ALTER2EGO -to- GLOSS PIN:
    I don't recall glossing over anything. This thread is about evidence for the existence of an intelligent Designer/God. It does not address evidence about which religious belief is acceptable to the Creator, Jehovah. For that, I would need to start a different thread in which I present evidence that the Bible is the inspired word of God. And with the level of skepticism taking place around here, I very much doubt anyone here will accept any of the evidence along that line.
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    2013 Dolphins LogoTannehill 17Dolphins Homer

    Re: Precision in Nature = Evidence of God

    FYI the use multicolored font is irritating and weakens your argument.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
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    Re: Precision in Nature = Evidence of God

    It's easy to predict elements when the sequence of elements is based on the number of electrons.

    Tell me, do you know what number comes between 6 and 8?

    Now that you've "predicted" this number are you a diety since you've discovered nitrogen?



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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilDylan View Post
    It's easy to predict elements when the sequence of elements is based on the number of electrons.

    Tell me, do you know what number comes between 6 and 8?

    Now that you've "predicted" this number are you a diety since you've discovered nitrogen?



    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
    ALTER2EGO -to- EVIL DYLAN:
    If anything, you are proving the point of my OP: that the elements on the Periodic Table are precise. So much so that their interrelationship to one another is predictable. Now, suppose you explain to the rest of the forum how that could have occurred spontaneously or by accident? Keep in mind the definition of "accident" and the definition of "spontaneous," as stated in my OP.


    DEFINITION OF "ACCIDENT":
    "a nonessential event that HAPPENS BY CHANCE and has undesirable or unfortunate results."(Source: Websters New Collegiate Dictionary)


    DEFINITION OF "SPONTANEOUS":
    "Spontaneous means unplanned or done on impulse."
    http://www.yourdictionary.com/spontaneous



    QUESTION #1 to EVIL DYLAN: Please explain what is "nonessential" and "undesirable" and "unfortunate" about the interrelationship among the elements on the Periodic Table?


    QUESTION #2 to EVIL DYLAN: The elements on the Periodic Table are all related to one another based upon the structure of their atoms. In turn, the elements--e.g. arsenic, bismuth, chromium, gold, krypton--reflect a distinct, natural numeral order. Does that strike you as something that was "unplanned" or happened spontaneously (by itself)? YES or NO?


    QUESTION #3 to EVIL DYLAN: If your answer to Question #2 is "Yes", then be sure and provide examples of similar spontaneous events or accidental occurrences among man-made creations. The man-made creations must be precisely related--by accident or spontaneously--every single time.
    Last edited by Alter2Ego; 07-16-2013 at 03:51 AM.
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