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Thread: Whoa! Dion Simms compared to Anthony Gates !!!

  1. -31
    Digital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fins_of_Fury View Post
    I dont think we picked him up because we thought he was the next Antonio Gates, we grabbed because we had no other viable option as a blocking TE.
    I think you are right. Plus the fact that Ireland places a very high premium on positional value. The "core positions" like LT, pass rusher, DT, CB will always trump the non-core positions like WR, TE, ILB or nickel back. It's almost formulaic for him, and it's part of the reason why some positions never seem to invest a 1st round pick and we're always looking for acorns. He'll spend money on any position in free agency, but for draft picks he wants to keep the expensive core positions on cheap rookie contracts for the most part, so we simply don't draft a TE before round 3.

    It's not really a surprise that we have trouble scoring in the red zone ... we simply don't prioritize the positions that make that more effective like TE and WR. As it is today, our tallest WR that sees much time is Hartline at 6'2, and our primary receiving TE is Keller, also 6'2. It's not likely that a Dion Sims is going to be the type of red zone threat that Eifert or Ertz will be.
    "I want guys who want to make an impact on and off the field. Good human beings. Guys who want to get better. Guys who want to improve. They want to be great, want to win. Those types of guys we can work with every day." --Joe Philbin
    - Defending the Read Option - What do you think?
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    who is anthony gates?
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  3. -33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital View Post
    I don't see any of the fantastic player on film that everyone seems to be talking about in that highlight reel. I respect Polian, but Sims looks like a typical big lumbering guy. He may have slimmed down and timed well, but I don't see that in games so I'm very leery. I see a guy who has subpar burst and change of direction skills and virtually no vertical jump in the passing game. Sure, he may test well in the underwear Olympics, but when that contradicts what we see on tape, I'm going with the tape until the tape is proven incorrect in real football situations.

    On the plus side, he definitely can block, and he does appear to have soft hands and can extend for a catch, which pairs well with his length. But, without a functional football vertical jump, he's going to have to box out every DB/LB for every catch. Anyone comparing him to Tyler Eifert is going to be dramatically disappointed.

    Hey, I love combine metrics too, they help split hairs between players who seem similar on film. But, the greatest single predictor of success in the NFL is success in those things at the collegiate level. In other words, while great collegians may not become great NFL players, it's rare for a player who did not stand out in college to morph into a standout NFL player. There are exceptions, like the old Miami Dolphin Andra Franklin who was a blocking FB at Nebraska and became a feature RB in Miami, but those aren't common occurrences. Far more common are guys with great measurable who were above average but not really standouts in college that are busts in the NFL. I see Dion Sims as a blocking TE. Antonio Gates type athlete this is not.
    I was going to write almost exactly this post - including the key word "lumbering". Thanks for saving me the time and effort and for putting it better than I prob would.

    I want to be wrong about Sims, so fingers crossed. But there were so many good TEs in the class this year I can't help but feel we got an upgrade over Mastrud but little more.
    Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. - S. Beckett
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  4. -34
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    He is no Jordan Reed who we could have had in the third round.
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  5. -35
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    bill polian keeps dropping more gems...no wonder the colts fired his senile ass...
    hoops scoops 2012 season ..."in 2014 ryan tannehill etches his name in stone amongst the games elite qbs"..."ryan tannehill and andrew luck will carry the afc for the next decade plus the way peyton manning and tom brady have this last decade plus"
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    I think people misunderstand what kind of player this is. This guy will be used to help or weak LT Martin stay on his feet on passing plays. He will also be used to seal the edge on cutback runs. Not sure what the big fuss is over his ability as a receiver, because I don't think he was drafted with that in mind. I could see him getting a dozen catches or so, but his primary use will be blocking.
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  7. -37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital View Post
    I think you are right. Plus the fact that Ireland places a very high premium on positional value. The "core positions" like LT, pass rusher, DT, CB will always trump the non-core positions like WR, TE, ILB or nickel back. It's almost formulaic for him, and it's part of the reason why some positions never seem to invest a 1st round pick and we're always looking for acorns. He'll spend money on any position in free agency, but for draft picks he wants to keep the expensive core positions on cheap rookie contracts for the most part, so we simply don't draft a TE before round 3.

    It's not really a surprise that we have trouble scoring in the red zone ... we simply don't prioritize the positions that make that more effective like TE and WR. As it is today, our tallest WR that sees much time is Hartline at 6'2, and our primary receiving TE is Keller, also 6'2. It's not likely that a Dion Sims is going to be the type of red zone threat that Eifert or Ertz will be.
    I think what happened in this draft is that Jeff Ireland (a notorious and self admitted need picker) made a daring trade up to get the g they felt was the best defensive player in the draft and also happened to play a position of need. But once they did that it became that much more important that they notch players at the positions of need they had flagged heading into the draft, and so what happened after the Jordan pick was an almost pure example of need picking. He admitted that they reason they traded back up into the 3rd round was because they feared the run on corners had begun when Kayvon Webster and Logan Ryan went off. So Will Davis was an admitted need pick, even AFTER Jamar Taylor was picked. This implies that Taylor himself was a need pick. They lost Fasano and had only Keller, Clay and Egnew, none of whom could be trusted to block. There were four tight ends this draft who were accomplished blockers. Among them, Michael Williams I have pegged for needing to switch to tackle to survive in the NFL. Levine Toilolo MAY also need to because his hands are made of stone (a pet peeve of Philbin's). So with Travis Kelce off the board before they had even picked Dallas Thomas (another strong need as they had no intention of having to live 16 games with John Jerry last year, but ended up having to because of unfavorable circumstances) or Will Davis, they had to target Dion Sims.

    Mike Gillislee was clearly a need as well, because they needed competition for the 3rd down back role as they know Daniel Thomas is on his way to busthood. Gillislee can block. He doesn't even necessarily show great instincts for their particular scheme, but he can block. And of course, after losing games because of Dan Carpenter's kicking while simultaneously paying him about $2 or 3 million a year, they pegged kicker as a need and took one high so they could be assured of him.

    Only guys they took after Jordan that to me were not reaches for needs, were Jelani Jenkins and Don Jones. Jones was a guy they had clearly pegged some time ago as a player they just love and had to come away with. Jenkins may have been a need but it's hard to discern it at the moment. Their linebacker depth was certainly woeful but I don't expect them to admit that after having given Jason Trusnik a fresh three year contract.
    Twitter: @ckparrot
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  8. -38
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    signing trusnick to that contract provided there was any guaranteed money when they did was a mistake...
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  9. -39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ckparrothead View Post
    I think what happened in this draft is that Jeff Ireland (a notorious and self admitted need picker) made a daring trade up to get the g they felt was the best defensive player in the draft and also happened to play a position of need. But once they did that it became that much more important that they notch players at the positions of need they had flagged heading into the draft, and so what happened after the Jordan pick was an almost pure example of need picking. He admitted that they reason they traded back up into the 3rd round was because they feared the run on corners had begun when Kayvon Webster and Logan Ryan went off. So Will Davis was an admitted need pick, even AFTER Jamar Taylor was picked. This implies that Taylor himself was a need pick. They lost Fasano and had only Keller, Clay and Egnew, none of whom could be trusted to block. There were four tight ends this draft who were accomplished blockers. Among them, Michael Williams I have pegged for needing to switch to tackle to survive in the NFL. Levine Toilolo MAY also need to because his hands are made of stone (a pet peeve of Philbin's). So with Travis Kelce off the board before they had even picked Dallas Thomas (another strong need as they had no intention of having to live 16 games with John Jerry last year, but ended up having to because of unfavorable circumstances) or Will Davis, they had to target Dion Sims.

    Mike Gillislee was clearly a need as well, because they needed competition for the 3rd down back role as they know Daniel Thomas is on his way to busthood. Gillislee can block. He doesn't even necessarily show great instincts for their particular scheme, but he can block. And of course, after losing games because of Dan Carpenter's kicking while simultaneously paying him about $2 or 3 million a year, they pegged kicker as a need and took one high so they could be assured of him.

    Only guys they took after Jordan that to me were not reaches for needs, were Jelani Jenkins and Don Jones. Jones was a guy they had clearly pegged some time ago as a player they just love and had to come away with. Jenkins may have been a need but it's hard to discern it at the moment. Their linebacker depth was certainly woeful but I don't expect them to admit that after having given Jason Trusnik a fresh three year contract.
    What makes ya think they liked don jones for so long? I really don't know much about the guy besides his measureables.

    And I actually think sims will be a pretty good receivng threat. Reminds me of a Kevin Boss before the injuries. I'm not one of those of people who believe a TE needs to he crazy athletic to be effective receiving. Guys like boss are naturally wide, and have natural hands, can catch the ball from multiple angles. I think that's something that sims really excels at.

    Even watching Tony Gonzalez this past season, he didn't get any separation ever. Didn't break tackles, didn't juke anyone, and looked quite slower than his younger self.

    But he produced as one of the top receiving TEs in the NFL, just because he has great hands, runs clean routes, and matt Ryan knew where to put the ball. big guys, with really good hands, are really hard to stop, no matter how tightly covered.
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  10. -40
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    I was say prob more of the Ferrell Edmunds type player. I was early teens at time but if I remember correctly Edmunds was a solid blocker and had soft reliable hands. who knows I could be way off, didn't get to see many fins games back then. it was always Atlanta or Washington in my area. and ya want to see a 35" beer then look at my pic. das boot is 8 beers of glory. I also have a 3 foot pilsner but it only holds 6 beers. if egnew could transform into david martin and be situational I could handle that if keller is a beast. but in reality what we can really hope for them best instead of comparisons is that keller is gonna have a healthy season in which he'll be a top notch TE for us. not probowl material because assuming healthy or not healthy im sure by elimination NEs TE's will be the probowlers. that egnew can finally show some of the traits he had in college in his last year with blaine gabber, and that sims makes a name for himself just catching dump passes off block and releases
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