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Thread: Hayden Fox's OTA's and Mini Camp Assessment

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    Spot on Hayden. Great write up as always. I especially agree with you on two things. First you are right we HAVE to create more TO's. And if we have added more speed on defense that should help a lot. We created fumbles last year, but we sure didn't recover most of them. And like you I'm also concerned about chemistry with all the turnover in personnel. It may take awhile on both sides of the ball for the Phins to realize their full potential. Especially at LB. We get younger and faster there, but Dansby and Burnett constituted a solid veteran presence at the position. I like Ellerbe and Wheeler on paper, but it's probably best we wait to see how the unit plays together on the field before crowning them. While we should be much improved this year (especially if Tannehill excels), to me the off season moves we made were with an eye on next year and beyond more than just this season.
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    Great write up Hayden.... damn you for getting me pumped up with no football for more than a month


    Quote Originally Posted by Hayden Fox View Post

    For those that actually thought that Will Yeatman was a possible answer at starting LT, shame on your player personnel skills. I love projects...especially up front on the lines. However, Will Yeatman has no business as being an initial answer as a starter on this team....hence him practicing more and more at guard.
    Completely agree and I had posted a few times that I suspected/wanted Yeatman to see time at Guard. Getting that level of athleticism inside next to Pouncey can only mean potentially positive things for the run game, what with the Zone scheme... this is year two for this kid and this Coaching staff so will be one to watch. I too love projects up front, especially raw athletes that are coachable [is Yeatman one of those??] especially as I've run the Zone scheme myself with a very athletic line... so I'm quite excited to see Yeatman at Guard.
    Last edited by Pat-London; 06-14-2013 at 05:33 PM.
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Gift received at 02-24-2014, 02:26 PM from hooshoopsTannehill 17Tannehill 17
    Quote Originally Posted by Pat-London View Post
    Great right up Hayden.... damn you for getting me pumped up with no football for more than a month




    Completely agree and I had posted a few times that I suspected/wanted Yeatman to see time at Guard. Getting that level of athleticism inside next to Pouncey can only mean potentially positive things for the run game, what with the Zone scheme... this is year two for this kid and this Coaching staff so will be one to watch. I too love projects up front, especially raw athletes that are coachable [is Yeatman one of those??] especially as I've run the Zone scheme myself with a very athletic line... so I'm quite excited to see Yeatman at Guard.
    Pat, curious on your opinion of Jerry. I like the guy, believe he is athletic enough to fit in, was average last year, and IF he keeps his weight in check, could be pretty good.
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    you got to be jonesing to do a post ota and mini camp wrap up and come to real conclusions out of it...
    hoops scoops 2012 season ..."in 2014 ryan tannehill etches his name in stone amongst the games elite qbs"..."ryan tannehill and andrew luck will carry the afc for the next decade plus the way peyton manning and tom brady have this last decade plus"
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    Great write up. It's nice to hear that one of the biggest negatives at this point are the announcers (Jimmy Cefalo) and the poor marketing of the new team logo. On paper we are better in almost every area, especially when you factor in growth and learning from last year. How we gel and how we overcome adversity will be huge. On paper, we should easily do better in the takeaway department, but some of that his luck and being opportunistic
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    If the Dolphins only problems are a radio announcer and their pro shop, it's safe to expect a 14-2 year then.






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    Quote Originally Posted by Southbeach 2 View Post
    Pat, curious on your opinion of Jerry. I like the guy, believe he is athletic enough to fit in, was average last year, and IF he keeps his weight in check, could be pretty good.
    This is a bit long, got carried away with the question - apologies for that.

    To me, John Jerry is an intruiging but at the same time frustrating player... Has a lot of potential... [that old coach killer], but doesn't seem to have the drive to be a winner. He has simply gotten by, even in the NFL, with his natural ability.

    His weight sounds like it could be back on the agenda of being an issue again [was reportedly under 340 at the start of OTA's, and now at 345.. at the end of OTA's???]. The real key is... he has 5/6 weeks between now and Camp, so this will show how serious he is.

    As for him as a player - I like what he can bring. In the right role. I see his strength more in the pass game than run, but he's, fair to middling in the run game - which again, has gotten him by. His pass pro strength speaks to being more suited to Tackle, and when he's had to fill in at Tackle, he's done ok [I haven't quite figured out whether he's a right or left tackle]. So with an off season of focus and prep solely at O Tackle... perhaps he could be better. If I am assessing where I see him on the roster, ideally I see him as a 6th man type, i.e. the first man off the bench, a role that Nate Garner has excelled in over the last couple of years [exception being Centre where Jerry doesn't have any experience]. I don't see him as a starter - in the ideal O Line - but a useful and key backup who has position flexibility. The other gap I see in his game is nastiness - I just don't see it. It's there to a degree with Martin, just not with Jerry. I wouldn't say soft, but perhaps lazy is more akin to his current game. Is he another Soliai - who showed tremendous talent but was lazy so seemed soft/not capable of handling his business. Soliai made a committment and his game became evident. Will Jerry?

    I for one, would like to see, during preason!!!, see a line up of [from left to right], Martin, Samuda, Pouncey, Yeatman and Jerry. And for these guys, when running 'ALL' zone run plays, to run it with strectch blocking. Again.. let me repeat. I'd like to see this during preseason - it's quite an athletic group and I'd be intrigued to see the movement, as a group [concerned that the expected OLine could be a 4+1 with LT through RG being mobile and RT Clabo being the odd man out]. Not saying Incognito or Clabo are not useful - they are, but from a scheme standpoint, they don't - in my view - fit the ultimate mould of pure Zone blockers.

    I will caveat this by saying, it all depends on what they are asking their OL to do in the Zone running game and I don't know what that is - at least for this year coming. Personally, I love movement from the OL... you watch the Houston OL run zone and it's hard to tell between inside and outside [stretch] run plays - it's pure orchestration with how they move. From experience, and how I ran it, I liked 2 inside zone plays [Tight = with the HB landmark off the Inside 'Hip' of the playside guard] [Zone = inside 'Hip' of the playside Tackle] and 1 outside zone run [Strech = outside 'Hip' of TE] - don't forget, post snap, the OL move, so the landmark is always moving - hence the need for successful zone backs to have great vision - they have to see, not only the blocking scheme, but the reaction of the defense.

    But.. with the OL all running Stretch, i.e. Outside Zone blocking. I.e. An even split of horizontal and vertical movement [my own, simplistic way of explaining it]. It forces the Defences, in particular the LB's to move... that is, if they're good and reading their OL keys. So, the responsibility then is on the Back to read the colour and as an old coach of mine used to say... if Colour [opposite jersey colour] Crosses your face [i.e. the defender has gotten outside your landmark/OL hip... you plant, cut back and get up into the gap left by said LB crossing your face, and... if Colour doesn't cross your face, then stay on your landmark with the OL and run through your landmark.

    Last year with Miami, from what I could see, we seemed to run a lot of inside zone blocking movement, i.e more vertical with limited lateral movement. And even on the outside zone plays, it was not as much movement as I was expecting - personnel driven me thinks! And we resorted to a blend of power /zone, by using a backside pulling lineman - not pure zone, but a hybrid which can be effective - just not my personal preferance, but have used it and with the right personnel, can give you options, or at least let you play to your strengths [i.e. Incognitio and pulling] and/or mask your weaknesses [Jerry and 2nd level zone blocking capabilities] - which is why I think Yeatman at Guard is an intriguing option.

    Right - I'll leave it there.
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    great write-up. concerning, Cefalo, i read Agler is going to do the play-by-play announcing during pre-season. so maybe the easing out has already started.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat-London View Post
    This is a bit long, got carried away with the question - apologies for that.

    To me, John Jerry is an intruiging but at the same time frustrating player... Has a lot of potential... [that old coach killer], but doesn't seem to have the drive to be a winner. He has simply gotten by, even in the NFL, with his natural ability.

    His weight sounds like it could be back on the agenda of being an issue again [was reportedly under 340 at the start of OTA's, and now at 345.. at the end of OTA's???]. The real key is... he has 5/6 weeks between now and Camp, so this will show how serious he is.

    As for him as a player - I like what he can bring. In the right role. I see his strength more in the pass game than run, but he's, fair to middling in the run game - which again, has gotten him by. His pass pro strength speaks to being more suited to Tackle, and when he's had to fill in at Tackle, he's done ok [I haven't quite figured out whether he's a right or left tackle]. So with an off season of focus and prep solely at O Tackle... perhaps he could be better. If I am assessing where I see him on the roster, ideally I see him as a 6th man type, i.e. the first man off the bench, a role that Nate Garner has excelled in over the last couple of years [exception being Centre where Jerry doesn't have any experience]. I don't see him as a starter - in the ideal O Line - but a useful and key backup who has position flexibility. The other gap I see in his game is nastiness - I just don't see it. It's there to a degree with Martin, just not with Jerry. I wouldn't say soft, but perhaps lazy is more akin to his current game. Is he another Soliai - who showed tremendous talent but was lazy so seemed soft/not capable of handling his business. Soliai made a committment and his game became evident. Will Jerry?

    I for one, would like to see, during preason!!!, see a line up of [from left to right], Martin, Samuda, Pouncey, Yeatman and Jerry. And for these guys, when running 'ALL' zone run plays, to run it with strectch blocking. Again.. let me repeat. I'd like to see this during preseason - it's quite an athletic group and I'd be intrigued to see the movement, as a group [concerned that the expected OLine could be a 4+1 with LT through RG being mobile and RT Clabo being the odd man out]. Not saying Incognito or Clabo are not useful - they are, but from a scheme standpoint, they don't - in my view - fit the ultimate mould of pure Zone blockers.

    I will caveat this by saying, it all depends on what they are asking their OL to do in the Zone running game and I don't know what that is - at least for this year coming. Personally, I love movement from the OL... you watch the Houston OL run zone and it's hard to tell between inside and outside [stretch] run plays - it's pure orchestration with how they move. From experience, and how I ran it, I liked 2 inside zone plays [Tight = with the HB landmark off the Inside 'Hip' of the playside guard] [Zone = inside 'Hip' of the playside Tackle] and 1 outside zone run [Strech = outside 'Hip' of TE] - don't forget, post snap, the OL move, so the landmark is always moving - hence the need for successful zone backs to have great vision - they have to see, not only the blocking scheme, but the reaction of the defense.

    But.. with the OL all running Stretch, i.e. Outside Zone blocking. I.e. An even split of horizontal and vertical movement [my own, simplistic way of explaining it]. It forces the Defences, in particular the LB's to move... that is, if they're good and reading their OL keys. So, the responsibility then is on the Back to read the colour and as an old coach of mine used to say... if Colour [opposite jersey colour] Crosses your face [i.e. the defender has gotten outside your landmark/OL hip... you plant, cut back and get up into the gap left by said LB crossing your face, and... if Colour doesn't cross your face, then stay on your landmark with the OL and run through your landmark.

    Last year with Miami, from what I could see, we seemed to run a lot of inside zone blocking movement, i.e more vertical with limited lateral movement. And even on the outside zone plays, it was not as much movement as I was expecting - personnel driven me thinks! And we resorted to a blend of power /zone, by using a backside pulling lineman - not pure zone, but a hybrid which can be effective - just not my personal preferance, but have used it and with the right personnel, can give you options, or at least let you play to your strengths [i.e. Incognitio and pulling] and/or mask your weaknesses [Jerry and 2nd level zone blocking capabilities] - which is why I think Yeatman at Guard is an intriguing option.

    Right - I'll leave it there.
    You sound like an O-Line guru, and I respect your detailed knowledge, but we haven't just spent big $ attracting Clabo to have him just sit on his big a$$. All of the reports that I have heard indicate that he is off to a good start. You might want to see John Jerry play RT, but the reality is that Clabo is here to play in that position. Ireland looked at multiple options and decided on Clabo. If John Jerry was the RT answer we would not have paid top $ to attract Clabo.
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    Quote Originally Posted by spiketex View Post
    You sound like an O-Line guru, and I respect your detailed knowledge, but we haven't just spent big $ attracting Clabo to have him just sit on his big a$$. All of the reports that I have heard indicate that he is off to a good start. You might want to see John Jerry play RT, but the reality is that Clabo is here to play in that position. Ireland looked at multiple options and decided on Clabo. If John Jerry was the RT answer we would not have paid top $ to attract Clabo.
    I believe what Pat was saying is that he would like to see the combo OL he mentioned in action, as they are better fits to what zone blocking is meant to be. To be fair, Clabo is not getting top $, and was our third choice behind Long or Albert at LT, with Martin at RT.
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