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Thread: Microsoft back tracks. XB1 now without restrictions

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    I think microsoft has done serious damage to their image with this debacle. And then trying to pass the blame on the backtracking onto customers and fans, instead of owning up to the fact that this whole idea was greedy and wrong to begin with, only hurts them more.

    People were willing to put up with a faulty 360 for 8 years out of loyalty to the xbox. And now they flushed all that good will down the drain in a matter of weeks.
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    Gamers win, THe xbox restrictions on used games were beyond silly, in fact the whole argument against used games is totally bogus
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    Well I think the console makers want to go to a cloud only system where they control everything. The problem with that is what will it mean for smaller games. They seem to exist in part because people know they can buy them and trade them in later, but if you can't trade them in, are you really going to spend $60-70 for a 12 hour game? Right now you can buy it for $60 and then trade it in that same week for around $30 in most cases. So I think when the time comes for games to stop existing on discs, smaller games will start to disappear.

    In a way this will force developers to makes bigger, longer games, but that also means there will be far fewer games and developers will have to bank on their big releases more and more.
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    Microsoft back tracks. XB1 now without restrictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Shimmergloom1x View Post
    Well I think the console makers want to go to a cloud only system where they control everything. The problem with that is what will it mean for smaller games. They seem to exist in part because people know they can buy them and trade them in later, but if you can't trade them in, are you really going to spend $60-70 for a 12 hour game? Right now you can buy it for $60 and then trade it in that same week for around $30 in most cases. So I think when the time comes for games to stop existing on discs, smaller games will start to disappear.

    In a way this will force developers to makes bigger, longer games, but that also means there will be far fewer games and developers will have to bank on their big releases more and more.
    The only way that will ever work is if they follow the Steam formula. Tons of great deals, and lots of quality F2P games to offer. This is why the "Steam Box" interests me a lot more than the PS4 or Xbox One.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimmergloom1x View Post
    Well I think the console makers want to go to a cloud only system where they control everything. The problem with that is what will it mean for smaller games. They seem to exist in part because people know they can buy them and trade them in later, but if you can't trade them in, are you really going to spend $60-70 for a 12 hour game? Right now you can buy it for $60 and then trade it in that same week for around $30 in most cases. So I think when the time comes for games to stop existing on discs, smaller games will start to disappear.

    In a way this will force developers to makes bigger, longer games, but that also means there will be far fewer games and developers will have to bank on their big releases more and more.
    I am trying to understand what you are driving at here?

    You do realize that game developers get nothing out of the used game market right? It is essentially a parasite on their profits. You spend 3 years developing something and it gets sold once then resold 6 more times in Gamespot. The big winner there is Gamespot not the people that actually worked to make the game.

    Eliminating the middle man whether that be gamespot, best buy, wall mart, etc and allowing games to be directly downloaded is an improvement in efficiency.
    Eliminating physical media such as DVD's, CD's, colorful boxes, instructions results in more cost reduction.

    All these savings are what allow "indie" or small game developers to exist. They can simply charge $2-5 dollars for their product. That is a cost savings to the consumer. Part of the $60 dollars in your Madden title is built in paper, plastic, storage, distribution, over production, labor, etc.

    The only medium where "smaller" games will work is a cloud medium.

    You guys are so hell bent on criticizing Microsoft here you fail to realize that this backpeddle is a loss to all the small gaming outfits out there.
    Like I have said on numerous occasions in these threads. All of Microsofts moves were designed to align itself as much as possible with the game developers.
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    Re: Microsoft back tracks. XB1 now without restrictions

    Quote Originally Posted by trojanma View Post
    I am trying to understand what you are driving at here?

    You do realize that game developers get nothing out of the used game market right? It is essentially a parasite on their profits. You spend 3 years developing something and it gets sold once then resold 6 more times in Gamespot. The big winner there is Gamespot not the people that actually worked to make the game.

    Eliminating the middle man whether that be gamespot, best buy, wall mart, etc and allowing games to be directly downloaded is an improvement in efficiency.
    Eliminating physical media such as DVD's, CD's, colorful boxes, instructions results in more cost reduction.

    All these savings are what allow "indie" or small game developers to exist. They can simply charge $2-5 dollars for their product. That is a cost savings to the consumer. Part of the $60 dollars in your Madden title is built in paper, plastic, storage, distribution, over production, labor, etc.

    The only medium where "smaller" games will work is a cloud medium.

    You guys are so hell bent on criticizing Microsoft here you fail to realize that this backpeddle is a loss to all the small gaming outfits out there.
    Like I have said on numerous occasions in these threads. All of Microsofts moves were designed to align itself as much as possible with the game developers.
    That's all well and good if you think the market is going to become a boom of indie developers.

    But the big boys, EA, Ubisoft, Activision, etc., will still charge you an arm and a leg for their games. They may drop their prices by ten bucks for the first week. But for brand new games it will still be the same price as they are in stores. Hell I just saw The Last of Us on PSN last night available for download at full price.

    What Microsoft originally did is essentially what you see in politics these days. You want a bill passed, you line the pockets of the guys making the bills. Screw the little guy. So long as the companies can continue to make their money at the little guys expense, who cares what they think.

    So while you are right that the original DRM policies benefited the developers, especially the indie guys, it was still a slap in the face for consumers. And the fact that they changed their minds shows that they somewhat care what their consumers think. Even though everyone knows that it was the pre-order numbers that really changed their minds.

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    mediocrity sucks

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    Quote Originally Posted by trojanma View Post

    You guys are so hell bent on criticizing Microsoft here you fail to realize that this backpeddle is a loss to all the small gaming outfits out there.
    Like I have said on numerous occasions in these threads. All of Microsofts moves were designed to align itself as much as possible with the game developers.
    First of all, small gaming outfits that make good games will continue to do just fine, as they have been doing all along. Companies like The Behomoth and the many on PC tha do it with digital only products. Or companies like CD Projekt Red who started as nothing with little funding, but created a superior product (The Witcher), and are becoming one of the best developers around with highly anticipated titles like The Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk 2077. Oh and they released all The Witcher 2 DLC for free, and are one of the biggest opponents of DRM.

    Secondly, aligning with developers is the reason Microsoft is a joke. Most of these big developers are greedy. They end up ****ing over legit customers with DRM, particularly online only or the ridiculous online passes EA uses, which they're finally getting rid of. They shove DLC down our throats which most of the time isn't worth the money at all. Looking at you Call of Duty. Companies that shove DLC down our throat while also refusing to allow modding on PC. That's a joke.

    Speaking of modding, there's another one of the futures of gaming which I'm shocked consoles haven't delved into yet. Well I guess I'm not really shocked, again, goes right into the greediness of many big developers as well as Sony and Microsoft who won't be able to make a buck off community modding. It's one of the biggest reasons for the success of PC gaming. Completely free DLC offered by the community thanks to developers who make it possible by releasing mod tools and allowing extensive modding of their products. This also goes hand in hand with the success of many indie companies, TaleWorlds being a great example with Mount and Blade. Modding communities keeps games alive. Particularly the smaller titles. Look at all the developers that got their start as modders. So many great games that started off as mods for other games. Counter Strike. Team Fortress. Day Z. Many others.

    Microsoft is basically trying to bring their own Steam to consoles, or at least trying to branch into that. Which will fail, because they want to align to greedy developers, instead of the gamers, you know, those guys who buy the products. Like I mentioned above, Steam is such a big hit because they have constant great deals, and the PC platform offers many great F2P games, like Valve's own Team Fortress 2. What do we have on consoles? Planetside 2 coming to PS4 and World of Tanks coming to Xbox 360. Games which have been available F2P on PC for awhile. Obviously there will be more, some we seen at E3, but we'll see how many of those end up console exclusives. Either way it can never compare to the PC experience of F2P gaming. Not to mention, most of the F2P market is made up my MMORPG's. Aside from an action RPG like Elder Scrolls, MMO's just won't work on anything but a keyboard and mouse the same way that sports and racing games are terrible on anything but a controller.

    Finally, LOL if you think going digital will somehow cause greedy developers to drop the price on games. You obviously aren't a PC gamer, where new releases cost the same exact $60 for download on Steam and GOG as they do to buy a disk version.

    Digital is the future of gaming, however it won't be greedy Microsoft pioneering it. Not at all. It will be Valve or someone else. Notice I said the future. This is the present, and the XB1 is part of the present. America isn't technologically advanced enough for pure digital gaming on consoles, nor will it by the time the Xbox One releases. Still way too many people who don't have the internet capabilities for it. Steam can succeed on PC's because... They're PC's, and mostly everyone who can afford to game on a PC has the proper internet connectivity required.
    Last edited by Clipse; 06-24-2013 at 09:20 PM.
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    R & R if you are going to go into a diatribe about my post at least try and understand it first.

    Lets get this out of the way I agree with you that Microsoft is a greedy corporation, but so is Sony, so is Gamespot, so is Valve.
    You are trying to paint this like some sort of black and white situation. Microsoft-Evil Empire, Sony-Champion of the little guy. They are exactly the same-both greedy.

    Now my argument to our friend above was that digital ecosystems like STEAM, GOG and XboxLiveArcade are healthy for indie games since it what allows for a streamlined distribution of their product. Unlike the used game clearinghouses like Gamespot, which offer nothing to game developers.
    I haven't really tracked how big name games sell on Steam, etc so I will take your word for it. I have a steam account though I generally only use it for indie games and super deals.

    You mentioned CD Projekt as some example of indie gaming. Well not exactly. Though CD Projekt Red did not have Ubisoft or Bethesda type budgets they were a big deal in Poland. The original Witcher had a 20 million Zloty budget. (probably around $5 million). https://www.cdprojekt.com/Grupa_kapi...a_korporacyjna

    You know what are some legitemate indie success stories.
    Look up Braid and Meat Boy. These guys got their start at XBLA.
    Microsoft may be the evil empire but helped some guys working on no budgets get their start.

    I stand by my original statement.
    I wish XB1 hadn't backpeddled. I had appreciated XB1 and PS4 as being unique entities. I preferred what XB1 was offering, most of you PS4. We all would have had a choice and would have chosen with our wallets.
    No we are back with generally indistinguishably entities.

    FWIW
    I have been into PC games long before the console. I had a Commodore 128.
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  9. -19
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    mediocrity sucks

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    Sony is greedy. Just not as greedy as Microsoft. CD Projekt Red may not be an Indie developer, but they were unknown to anybody outside of Poland, and created a masterpiece with a small budget compared to other developers.

    Xbox One offered nothing different aside from bull**** DRM that offers nothing but more money in the pockets of Microsoft and developers. DRM has never, and will never benefit the gamers in any way.

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