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Thread: Egyptian military overthrows government, suspends constitution

  1. -21
    jared81's Avatar
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    It's amazing some would rather side with countries that still live in the stoneage (Iran, Syria, Egypt) than side with a civilized people in Israel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jared81 View Post
    It's amazing some would rather side with countries that still live in the stoneage (Iran, Syria, Egypt) than side with a civilized people in Israel.
    You've got to hand it to Iran, though. Building nuclear weapons with stone age technology is pretty amazing.

    Syria is a complete dictatorial, war-zone mess. But Iran and Egypt are technologically advanced societies.
    No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jared81 View Post
    It's amazing some would rather side with countries that still live in the stoneage (Iran, Syria, Egypt) than side with a civilized people in Israel.
    Here is that black and white that Walrus just mentioned. Where has anyone sided with these countries? If you don't support Israel 100% then you want them destroyed? My annoyance was with the constant Muslim Brotherhood propaganda being spewed, not with the situation in Egypt. I couldn't give less of a **** about what happens over there.

    On a side note, I like how you generalize all these countries without knowing all that much about them. This is a picture of Iran's capital, Tehran.



    You sure that's a stoneage country...?

    If I could take your pain and frame it, and hang it on my wall,
    maybe you would never have to hurt again...

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWalrus View Post
    I agree with your annoyance over this point. There is very little but shades of gray in any serious discussion about the Middle East, and anyone who argues it in black and white terms is missing, well... pretty much everything. And in my opinion it's going to get worse between the US and Israel before it gets better.

    Israel's threats have always been existential -- trying merely to survive attacks and threats -- but the nature of that threat is changing. Despite what hawks like Netanyahu want you to believe, Israel's chief existential threat going forward is not Iran, or Syria, or Hezbollah or the Muslim Brotherhood.

    It's internal, in the fact that Israel -- according to it's constitution -- MUST be a Jewish state and a democracy. No problem, except the Arab population in Israel is growing twice as fast as the national average.



    http://www.yourmiddleeast.com/featur...ographics_6137

    In other words, Israel is faced with becoming aparthied South Africa. As that piece suggests, the only solution would seem to be in splitting off the parts of the country where Arabs are a majority. But where does it end? Can that fix the problem or does it merely delay it? The crown jewel is and always has been Jerusalem. What happens if the Jews become a minority there also? Or more to the point, what happens when they're a minority yet still rule, denying rights and suppressing any move toward a truly democratic process?
    That's why I think it's gonna get worse before it gets better. I don't see an amiable outcome as the Muslim population in Israel grows and I doubt that israel would relinquish any power, rights, land or whatever no matter where any pressure is coming from. I'm not sure what the time frame would be but I think it's gonna get ugly internally in Israel. Like you said, what happens if the Jewish population becomes the minority. I don't think there's any chance of them saying "oh since we are democracy everyone gets to vote and if Muslims win the election than thats well and good and fair"

    I also wonder how Europe would approach this scenerio. The Muslim population in England alone has doubled the past decade and in some towns is over 50%. Heck in London it's around 15% and the numbers are expected to increase and increase fast. Suppose the population grows into the 30% range. How does that effect England's stance on Israel if in the foreseeable future an apartheid type situation occurs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locke View Post
    Here is that black and white that Walrus just mentioned. Where has anyone sided with these countries? If you don't support Israel 100% then you want them destroyed? My annoyance was with the constant Muslim Brotherhood propaganda being spewed, not with the situation in Egypt. I couldn't give less of a **** about what happens over there.

    On a side note, I like how you generalize all these countries without knowing all that much about them. This is a picture of Iran's capital, Tehran.



    You sure that's a stoneage country...?
    I'm sure Kandahar has a couple of nice buildings. It's doesn't mean I'm going to vacation there. I know you get butt hurt when anyone talks about your precious Iran. But face it, it's a religious nutjobs wet dream. The Israel's would be the ones wiping the Iranians off the map if need be.

    ---------- Post added at 09:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:57 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWalrus View Post
    You've got to hand it to Iran, though. Building nuclear weapons with stone age technology is pretty amazing.

    Syria is a complete dictatorial, war-zone mess. But Iran and Egypt are technologically advanced societies.
    Point taken. Things seem to be going really well in Egypt these days. Oh wait......
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    Quote Originally Posted by jared81 View Post
    I'm sure Kandahar has a couple of nice buildings. It's doesn't mean I'm going to vacation there. I know you get butt hurt when anyone talks about your precious Iran. But face it, it's a religious nutjobs wet dream. The Israel's would be the ones wiping the Iranians off the map if need be.

    ---------- Post added at 09:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:57 PM ----------



    Point taken. Things seem to be going really well in Egypt these days. Oh wait......
    Well technological advancement and societal stability aren't contingent amongst one another.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jared81 View Post
    I'm sure Kandahar has a couple of nice buildings. It's doesn't mean I'm going to vacation there. I know you get butt hurt when anyone talks about your precious Iran. But face it, it's a religious nutjobs wet dream. The Israel's would be the ones wiping the Iranians off the map if need be.

    ---------- Post added at 09:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:57 PM ----------



    Point taken. Things seem to be going really well in Egypt these days. Oh wait......


    Just like you got butt hurt when the possibility of Israel came up? I couldn't care less what happens over there, I just happen to know a thing or two about the country. Whereas conservatives act like you're raping their wives when you even so much as sneeze in the direction of Israel. Interesting dynamic...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry_Bagpipe View Post
    That's why I think it's gonna get worse before it gets better. I don't see an amiable outcome as the Muslim population in Israel grows and I doubt that israel would relinquish any power, rights, land or whatever no matter where any pressure is coming from. I'm not sure what the time frame would be but I think it's gonna get ugly internally in Israel. Like you said, what happens if the Jewish population becomes the minority. I don't think there's any chance of them saying "oh since we are democracy everyone gets to vote and if Muslims win the election than thats well and good and fair"
    Well, I definitely need to learn more about the specifics of the way Israel's government works to see where this is going. What it sounds like is a country where the letter of the law is equality but the practice is very different. Which of course is all too familiar. In Israel's case, though, it is mandated that the country be Jewish. That would seem to give cover to more explicitly discriminatory practices should the balance of demographics turn decisively against them.

    I also wonder how Europe would approach this scenerio. The Muslim population in England alone has doubled the past decade and in some towns is over 50%. Heck in London it's around 15% and the numbers are expected to increase and increase fast. Suppose the population grows into the 30% range. How does that effect England's stance on Israel if in the foreseeable future an apartheid type situation occurs
    England has already given up the ghost on it's "traditional" Englishness, though. When I think of what it means to be English I always think back to the movie A Bridge Too Far. In one scene Anthony Hopkins plays an air force officer who's battalion or regiment or whatever is pinned down in a city. Hopkins' character is moving from one part of the city to another and passes by an open street that has a German machine gun nest at one end. So they set up the scene and on the first take Hopkins runs across the street, dodging the bullets. Well, the guy who Hopkins was portraying was on location watching the filming and apparently he vehemently objects to the scene, saying that no English officer would run in that situation. He would walk, to show disdain for the bullets. And he wasn't joking. That's the way English officers were in that day. Well, they thought it over and shot it with Hopkins running. No one would believe it the other way, they felt.

    And that attitude, mixed with peevishness and stubbornness and reflexively finding cross dressing hilarious for some reason... is apparently gone now. Or at least relegated to the older, upper class. The younger generation is crass and uneducated, and they've turned the older generation into Colonel Blimps just as the older generation Blimped their parents, so to speak. Every generation in England seems to go through it.

    The better example of what you're talking about seems to be France, which is fighting tooth and nail to preserve what is traditionally French. Anti-Muslim sentiment there is rampant and widespread and at every level of government. Muslim graves get desecrated. It's dramatically difficult to get a job if you're Muslim. To be fair, I don't think they especially hate Muslims. I just think they want to preserve what's French, which means hating anything that isn't French. This is a country, after all, that regulates it's language at the government level, banning for example the word "email" in favor of their own word, "courriel". I think the French really do value the way French culture at one time ruled the world the way American culture does now. And they're not willing to accept their fate on the world stage the way the England seems to have unhappily accepted theirs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locke View Post


    Just like you got butt hurt when the possibility of Israel came up? I couldn't care less what happens over there, I just happen to know a thing or two about the country. Whereas conservatives act like you're raping their wives when you even so much as sneeze in the direction of Israel. Interesting dynamic...
    I don't have a problem with critiquing Israel, there is plenty of blame to go around. But if your asking who is more civilized or who I would rather side with on the problems in the region. It's a no brainier.
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    Taking sides in the mideast has been a giant headache and will be until we finally realize that they can fight it out on their own.
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