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Thread: The Moral Roots of Liberals and Conservatives

  1. -21
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    Quote Originally Posted by tylerdolphin View Post
    Alright guys lets try not to send this thread off the deep end by getting into religion.
    Bull****. When has that ever happened?
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCall13 View Post
    If you don't believe in it, then that's your choice. Sorry for you.

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    I believe that abortion is a necessary tool to control the global overpopulation problem.

    Discuss.
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    Actually, a better solution might be the forced sterilization of everyone with an IQ under 100.

    Too many mouth-breathers wasting my damn oxygen.
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    Re: The Moral Roots of Liberals and Conservatives

    Quote Originally Posted by Bumpus View Post
    I believe that abortion is a necessary tool to control the global overpopulation problem.

    Discuss.
    Freakonomics made a pretty compelling argument that the drop in crime over the past few decades is far more correlated to legal abortion than to any police, economics, or certainly any politician. I don't necessarily agree with the morality of abortion but ridding the world of unwanted kids apparently keeps them from committing future crimes.
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    Re: The Moral Roots of Liberals and Conservatives

    Quote Originally Posted by SCall13 View Post
    Really bro? It's pretty clearly stated. There is NO WAY to misinterpret it.

    Leviticus 18:22 - Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination.

    Romans 1:27 - And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

    1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind

    Effeminate: (of a man) having or showing characteristics regarded as typical of a woman; unmanly.

    Leviticus 20:13 - If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.

    Romans 1:26-27 - For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature

    Looks pretty plain and simple to me. Homosexuality is WRONG. There is no way to misinterpret what the bible says. It's honestly plain as day.
    I get your point but there are more verses and more aspects to consider. My point is though that they have to stand before God, just like me, and be accountable for their actions. It is not up to me to judge them or determine guilt, my only task is to love them, as Christ does, and lead them to him. The rest is up to them and Christ. Condemning them ensures they will never consider his love and forgiveness, which we all need.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdz12250 View Post
    Why not classify them as centrist?
    I'm not sure there is a centrist position on social issues. You are either for gay marriage or against. The "I don't care either way" crowd would be "for" by default because they are saying they don't see anything inherently wrong with gays marrying. Same thing with abortions, etc. I think centrist comes into play when you start examining everything all together, not just social issues...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    I should have known it wasn't too crazy given that you posted it but I read the comments below the video first and got jaded. I thought they would be slamming religion with the Jesusland stuff. However, it pretty well called out the liberals just as much.

    You would be correct that ultimately, I feel that abortion is morally wrong but that it is not my right to dictate to others how to live their life. I am less sure about homosexuality as I think it is more inherent to one's being and not as much of a pure choice. I think of it as more of a genetic anomaly than a life choice. I think the Bible is pretty clear on abortion but I think the verses often quoted regarding homosexuality being a sin are not interpreted correctly. Thus, I am uncertain as to my ultimate view of morality regarding homosexuality. However, I am crystal clear on my convictions regarding impeding the rights of others and would never support outlawing anything that boils down to personal choice regardless of how I might feel about the issue personally.

    While we are on the subject, let me give you a peek into my brain and heart...you will see why a lot people don't get me, especially the people who think they are a lot like me. God gives us the choice to do whatever we want. We can follow him or not, believe in him or not, act morally or not, or be self-righteous or not. God, in my opinion, would absolutely not condone garnering moral actions through the removal of choices. If he wanted to make immorality impossible or illegal, he would have created us differently. We make choices every second of every day for a variety of reasons and we are ultimately accountable for those choices. Some of those choices will be good, some bad, some moral, some immoral. However, those choices make us who we are and that is the crux of what God loves about us. That is why the religious right is such a train wreck right now as is much of the liberal movement...they are trying to mandate their morality and only ensure the rights applicable to them. I don't jive with that as it violates my personal morality and, in my opinion, God's morality.

    I hope this makes sense to someone other than me as people usually look at me like I have a boob on my head when I have tried to explain my views in the past. Try throwing that one out in Sunday School...it didn't go over too well.
    You and I have a lot more in common then you may want to believe.
    Last edited by MadDog 88; 09-24-2013 at 05:56 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locke View Post
    I should apologize for not describing it correctly, then. Psychologists only really care about the social aspect of things like this. In the end, even the fiscal side comes back to it. Funding for war? Purity/Sanctity. Funding for "entitlements"? Fairness/Reciprocity. I could go on, but they all tie back into the morality aspects he describes.

    As for you being socially liberal, let me ask you a few questions. Obviously you are OK with gays marrying and having the same rights as straights, but are you accepting of their lifestyle, or are you willing to "deal with it"? Same with abortions. Are you stepping back and saying that it's OK for others to get abortions because it's their body despite morally thinking abortions are wrong, or do you truly have no issues with abortions? I ask because I talk to quite a few people who claim to be socially liberal, but are really just willing to let others live their lives. And that's not a bad thing in the slightest. There is a lot to be said about someone who fundamentally disagrees with something, but is willing to let others live their lives as they see fit. But I would still classify those people as socially conservative. They are just good people and are willing to let others live how they want.

    I'm surprised you went into that video expecting it to be crazy and bias. I make it a point not to post anything overly partisan, if it's partisan at all. Especially when delving into something like this, I wouldn't post anything at all unless I was confident it was objective...
    This post really opened my eyes that I may not be as socially liberal as I thought. I tend to view issues from the perspective of not necessarily having a problem with others doing it though it's not something I would ever support, i.e. abortion. And Buddy's comments about being fiscally conservative but socially liberal fit as well. I definitely side with the conservative approach to our economic system and firmly believe that you reap the benefits of financial security through hard work not hand outs.

    Something I have often wondered is what the hypothetical dividing line is between being conservative or liberal. Although I firmly believe that the majority of social programs in place to assist the poor are necessary to a certain degree, I despise the fact that so many abuse the assistance. Honestly I think our government could learn a lot from how some European nations assist the poor. So would this make me social or conservative both fiscally and socially because the two blend together.

    My apologies as I am at work and have not watched the video and won't until I get home.
    Last edited by MadDog 88; 09-24-2013 at 06:15 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadDog 88 View Post
    This post really opened my eyes that I may not be as socially liberal as I thought. I tend to view issues from the perspective of not necessarily having a problem with others doing it though it's not something I would ever support, i.e. abortion. And Buddy's comments about being fiscally conservative but socially liberal fit as well. I definitely side with the conservative approach to our economic system and firmly believe that you reap the benefits of financial security through hard work not hand outs.

    Something I have often wondered is what the hypothetical dividing line is between being conservative or liberal. Although I firmly believe that the majority of social programs in place to assist the poor are necessary to a certain degree, I despise the fact that so many abuse the assistance. Honestly I think our government could learn a lot from how some European nations assist the poor. So would this make me social or conservative both fiscally and socially because the two blend together.

    My apologies as I am at work and have not watched the video and won't until I get home.
    I'd say you're probably closer to socially conservative than socially liberal. But you're also someone who chooses not to impose your values on others, which I think is the single most important thing we could do as Americans. I don't think many people have an issue with others disagreeing with them. It only becomes an issue when someone's morality is forced on another. One of my closer friends is a staunch conservative. We agree on almost nothing. In fact, I don't even bring up politics around him because that's a surefire way to start an argument. But we don't try to force the other to be something we're not, so we get along great.

    For what it's worth, I agree that there are too many freeloaders taking advantage of the system. But I start to disagree when Republicans decide that because less than 5% of the people abuse it, no one should get it. There are systemic ways to address these problems. But cutting everyone's food stamps in half is not the way to do it. And it's hard for me to get on board with "fiscal conservatives" when they are OK with wasting millions of dollars a year on drug tests for welfare applicants, which study after study has shown to be one of the most wasteful uses of taxpayer money in recent history. It's a tough balance, but the lecture's point is that it is really necessary to have both. Liberals and conservatives balance each other out. In an ideal world, it leads to the best decision-making possible. But the Republican party is working hard to ruin even that with all this gerrymandering and voter suppression tactics they've been delving into...
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