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Thread: House votes to derail Obamacare

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    The fact of the matter is that the House Republicans were bluffing and Obama and Reid were more than willing to default if they didn't get their way. Either way, the Republicans were going to get massacred by the media and might as well have just shut up and prepared for the midterm elections. This all but ensures another Democratic super-majority for Obama's last two years just like his first two. We got Obamacare the last go around and I have a bad feeling that will be child's play compared to the communist **** they have in store for us next time. The Republicans were thoroughly over matched, not in ideology but definitely in strategy, marketing, and media relations. Checkmate Obama! God help us.

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    Like i suggested in my other post, Republicans are safe in '14. Well, "safe" is relatively speaking, they are vulnerable to Tea Party candidates. Whether that is a good thing or bad is up to you, but Democrats wont be taking the House. Redistricting has done a lot to secure peoples seats, one of the reasons why this situation unfolded the way it did: no real accountability. I seriously doubt conservatives will be winning any contested seats...but i think thats the least of their problems.

    The "get your way" part of your post was interesting. Democrats, and Obama, bowed to conservative demands. They agreed to the GOP budget number of $988 billion instead of the preferred $1.058 trillion. To put that into perspective, Paul Ryan's budget proposal(which Mitt Romney might or might not of been running on) was $967 billion. Boehner agreed to the deal and assured Reid he wouldnt shut down the government. He then changed his mind. Had Republicans simply taken what was offered, they would have come out smelling like roses. They could have declared victory and moved on to attacking Obamacare. One of those cases where you should take what you can get.
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    My favorite part of this deal is that it does nothing but push the problem a few months down the road. Obviously this time both sides will put apart their differences and work together to solve the problems. I mean there is no possible way they waste this time by yelling nonsense at one another and are forced into another eleventh hour deal that solves nothing but pushes the problem a little farther back right?

    I know a lot of republicans are pissed off at boehner for fighting a battle he had no chance of winning, but I'm curious what dems think about Reid after this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spesh View Post
    Like i suggested in my other post, Republicans are safe in '14. Well, "safe" is relatively speaking, they are vulnerable to Tea Party candidates. Whether that is a good thing or bad is up to you, but Democrats wont be taking the House. Redistricting has done a lot to secure peoples seats, one of the reasons why this situation unfolded the way it did: no real accountability. I seriously doubt conservatives will be winning any contested seats...but i think thats the least of their problems.

    The "get your way" part of your post was interesting. Democrats, and Obama, bowed to conservative demands. They agreed to the GOP budget number of $988 billion instead of the preferred $1.058 trillion. To put that into perspective, Paul Ryan's budget proposal(which Mitt Romney might or might not of been running on) was $967 billion. Boehner agreed to the deal and assured Reid he wouldnt shut down the government. He then changed his mind. Had Republicans simply taken what was offered, they would have come out smelling like roses. They could have declared victory and moved on to attacking Obamacare. One of those cases where you should take what you can get.
    Exactly. The polling of the Republican brand and the performance of individual Republicans in elections was already... well, unrelated. I don't see how these shenanigans change that. Sure, the economy has already lost like $25 billion dollars (according to S&P), but everyone knows that the only person who gets blamed for the economy -- no matter what party he's from -- is the president. And even if people were to blame Congress, it doesn't matter because the voters don't make the leap between blaming Congress and blaming their individual congressperson.

    I've posted a thread about this but it says a lot to me that Cruz, Rubio, Paul Ryan and Rand Paul all voted against the bill that passed to end the shutdown and extend the debt ceiling. All of 'em. What does that tell you about how their hired political wizards think this is going to play in a few years?
    Last edited by TheWalrus; 10-17-2013 at 12:47 AM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Spesh View Post
    Like i suggested in my other post, Republicans are safe in '14. Well, "safe" is relatively speaking, they are vulnerable to Tea Party candidates. Whether that is a good thing or bad is up to you, but Democrats wont be taking the House. Redistricting has done a lot to secure peoples seats, one of the reasons why this situation unfolded the way it did: no real accountability. I seriously doubt conservatives will be winning any contested seats...but i think thats the least of their problems.

    The "get your way" part of your post was interesting. Democrats, and Obama, bowed to conservative demands. They agreed to the GOP budget number of $988 billion instead of the preferred $1.058 trillion. To put that into perspective, Paul Ryan's budget proposal(which Mitt Romney might or might not of been running on) was $967 billion. Boehner agreed to the deal and assured Reid he wouldnt shut down the government. He then changed his mind. Had Republicans simply taken what was offered, they would have come out smelling like roses. They could have declared victory and moved on to attacking Obamacare. One of those cases where you should take what you can get.
    I don't really see where anyone conceded much besides Boehner but I haven't looked through this thoroughly as I have just become so disgusted with the whole mess that I just can't ingest any more for right now. However if both sides walked away relatively unhappy then maybe it was actually a decent compromise. I still question the timing of this and the stand on Obamacare at this point as it seems like a foregone conclusion and a perfect opportunity for Obama to dump blame when the program inevitably fails miserably. I still think that Republicans have a distinct chance of losing the house and losing ground in the senate next year but am also convinced that a stalemate may be the best alternative that we have right now. Both sides are chock full of idiots hell bent on running this country into the ground so maybe they will cancel each other out until we can turn over the whole lot of them and vote all of them out. I am just truly disgusted with Washington right now, just disgusted.
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    I know that this is crazy to ask but they didn't happen to slide an actual budget into this deal, did they? Has a president ever made it through two whole terms without ever passing a budget? Are we just doing away with the concept of an actual budget so that we can have a standoff every few months that threatens to shut down the government and default on the National Debt? Kick the can, *******s, kick the can!
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    One more quick rant before I hit the sack...why in the **** do federal employees get back pay for the time that they are furloughed? Was this just a vacation for them? I don't get paid if my company furloughs me so why in the hell should they get paid for sitting on their asses for two weeks? I feel for anyone who loses their income but come on, no one else in the private sector would get this type of back pay. Won't this just encourage public employees to want temporary shutdowns in the future because it essentially ends up being a paid vacation?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    I know that this is crazy to ask but they didn't happen to slide an actual budget into this deal, did they? Has a president ever made it through two whole terms without ever passing a budget? Are we just doing away with the concept of an actual budget so that we can have a standoff every few months that threatens to shut down the government and default on the National Debt? Kick the can, *******s, kick the can!
    Nope. Not a budget. Just a continuing resolution on sequester level spending. The fight in January will not be about Obamacare. It will be about entitlements. Obama has signaled he's willing to talk entitlement reform (including some means testing, which I think is an abomination), in exchange for higher taxes. The Republicans -- Paul Ryan in particular -- are interested in more fundamental entitlement reform, centered around partial privatization.

    The fight will also be about spending more generally. The sequester cut domestic programs and military budgets and raised taxes on the wealthy. Should be interesting to see which changes become permanent and which ones are repealed.

    To be honest it would be silly to expect an actual budget, but it looks like they might actually try.
    Last edited by TheWalrus; 10-17-2013 at 03:33 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    One more quick rant before I hit the sack...why in the **** do federal employees get back pay for the time that they are furloughed? Was this just a vacation for them? I don't get paid if my company furloughs me so why in the hell should they get paid for sitting on their asses for two weeks? I feel for anyone who loses their income but come on, no one else in the private sector would get this type of back pay. Won't this just encourage public employees to want temporary shutdowns in the future because it essentially ends up being a paid vacation?
    Because the people who work at your company don't vote for who runs your company.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    I know that this is crazy to ask but they didn't happen to slide an actual budget into this deal, did they? Has a president ever made it through two whole terms without ever passing a budget? Are we just doing away with the concept of an actual budget so that we can have a standoff every few months that threatens to shut down the government and default on the National Debt? Kick the can, *******s, kick the can!
    Sorry, i misspoke when i said "budget number", i should have stated "CR" like Walrus mentioned. No budget was passed.

    Nor should anyone expect one. Theres not enough political gain to be had, not to mention they couldnt agree on what the budget should contain anyways. I dont expect another shutdown, but things will turn stupid come January. And things will only continue after the Tea Party becomes emboldened after the 2014 election. I dont think its far fetched to expect more manufactured crisis' until Obama is leaving office.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spesh View Post
    Sorry, i misspoke when i said "budget number", i should have stated "CR" like Walrus mentioned. No budget was passed.

    Nor should anyone expect one. Theres not enough political gain to be had, not to mention they couldnt agree on what the budget should contain anyways. I dont expect another shutdown, but things will turn stupid come January. And things will only continue after the Tea Party becomes emboldened after the 2014 election. I dont think its far fetched to expect more manufactured crisis' until Obama is leaving office.
    I guess they have operated without one for so long they figure they don't need one. Maybe when no one will lend us any more money or they have to start taxing everyone out the eyeballs they will wake up...probably not.

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    ---------- Post added at 02:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:06 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWalrus View Post
    Because the people who work at your company don't vote for who runs your company.
    That is very, very true.

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