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Thread: Is Geno better than Ryan..........

  1. -51
    DisturbedShifty's Avatar
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  2. -52
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    Just b/c we are Jet fans doesn't mean we aren't allowed to disagree. I feel strongly one way, many others feel strongly the other way. Just b/c I am in the minority doesn't mean I'm wrong. Fans tend to sway in the wind, a good portion of our fanbase wanted Rex gone, when you win everyone loves you, when you lose they hate you. Most fans can't see through the struggles.
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  3. -53
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    other than the 4 playoff wins which double the next most of any QB in Jets history. Is that it? he gave us a chance to reach 2 SBs which our overrated Ds choked in to prevent us from going. He got us closer to a SB than at any point since SB III.

    He had ONE bad year, a year w/ the worst offensive talent in the league(healthy talent) and Tony Sparano running things w/ the Tebow distraction hovering over the team.

    This is why Jet fans don't deserve a winner, we finally have a guy we can win big with and they want him gone b/c he sucked in a situation no QB could succeed in.

    Obviously I know Mark's career as a Jet is over(barring something incredibly crazy) but I'd take a healthy Mark on my team any day. It's not his fault since 2010 the talent eroded around him.

    He went from Braylon, Holmes, Cotch and Keller in 2010 to:

    -losing Braylon and getting an older WR who just spent 2 years in prison, picking up an old WR in camp and having 3 of his top 5 weapons out of football the next year.

    -in 2012 he saw Chaz Schilens starting, he lost Holmes and his favorite target keller, Clyde Gates couldn't make the dolphins yet he played a prominent role for us picking him up after the season began.


    Mark has proven he can win big in this league but you need talent. heck, look at Eli w/ talent Mark has never had and he's 0-5. Look at ben w/ little talent(still much more than mark had last year). Unless your name is Tom Brady you need talent to throw and handoff to in this league. When mark had it he won big, when he didn't he sucked much like Eli and ben are sucking w/ much more talent right now.
    I'll give you that Eli has looked like hot garbage without much support so far this season, but I think Ben is a bad example here. I watched the London game against the Vikings and I saw a quarterback keeping his team competitive in spite of a lackluster supporting cast. Yeah they are 0-4, but his td interception ratio is dead even which isn't great, but not comparable to Eli's season so far, or buttfumble's 2012.
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  4. -54
    nyjunc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batroc View Post
    I'll give you that Eli has looked like hot garbage without much support so far this season, but I think Ben is a bad example here. I watched the London game against the Vikings and I saw a quarterback keeping his team competitive in spite of a lackluster supporting cast. Yeah they are 0-4, but his td interception ratio is dead even which isn't great, but not comparable to Eli's season so far, or buttfumble's 2012.
    Ben is better than Eli and Mark but they still aren't winning as the talent has drained.
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  5. -55
    Jetsfan89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    other than the 4 playoff wins which double the next most of any QB in Jets history. Is that it? he gave us a chance to reach 2 SBs which our overrated Ds choked in to prevent us from going. He got us closer to a SB than at any point since SB III.

    He had ONE bad year, a year w/ the worst offensive talent in the league(healthy talent) and Tony Sparano running things w/ the Tebow distraction hovering over the team.

    This is why Jet fans don't deserve a winner, we finally have a guy we can win big with and they want him gone b/c he sucked in a situation no QB could succeed in.

    Obviously I know Mark's career as a Jet is over(barring something incredibly crazy) but I'd take a healthy Mark on my team any day. It's not his fault since 2010 the talent eroded around him.

    He went from Braylon, Holmes, Cotch and Keller in 2010 to:

    -losing Braylon and getting an older WR who just spent 2 years in prison, picking up an old WR in camp and having 3 of his top 5 weapons out of football the next year.

    -in 2012 he saw Chaz Schilens starting, he lost Holmes and his favorite target keller, Clyde Gates couldn't make the dolphins yet he played a prominent role for us picking him up after the season began.


    Mark has proven he can win big in this league but you need talent. heck, look at Eli w/ talent Mark has never had and he's 0-5. Look at ben w/ little talent(still much more than mark had last year). Unless your name is Tom Brady you need talent to throw and handoff to in this league. When mark had it he won big, when he didn't he sucked much like Eli and ben are sucking w/ much more talent right now.
    When you break down his game by game performances he's not that impressive. How many games did we win those years where buttfumble's play was lacking? How many games did we lose where his play was terrible? I give him all the credit in the world for those 4 playoff wins. But I eventually expected him to grow into a more consistent QB. He hasn't done that. He still even going into this preseason was throwing picks to defensive lineman.

    That 2011 team with a receiver who spent 2 years in prison was sitting at 8-5 with three games left in the season. And if buttfumble played better that year we'd have had a better record even at that point (the Denver game comes to mind).

    You make it seem like Jets fans just crap on every QB they have. It's not just us though, it's pretty much universally agreed that buttfumble isn't very good. Jets fans, NFL fans, analysts, they'd all tell you the same thing.

    I don't blame him for 2012 but just because the talent around him is poor doesn't make it ok for him to make the same dumb mistakes he was making when the talent around him was good.

    The difference between Ben and Eli compared to Mark is huge. Those two eventually put it all together. Mark never could.
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  6. -56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetsfan89 View Post
    When you break down his game by game performances he's not that impressive. How many games did we win those years where buttfumble's play was lacking? How many games did we lose where his play was terrible? I give him all the credit in the world for those 4 playoff wins. But I eventually expected him to grow into a more consistent QB. He hasn't done that. He still even going into this preseason was throwing picks to defensive lineman.

    That 2011 team with a receiver who spent 2 years in prison was sitting at 8-5 with three games left in the season. And if buttfumble played better that year we'd have had a better record even at that point (the Denver game comes to mind).

    You make it seem like Jets fans just crap on every QB they have. It's not just us though, it's pretty much universally agreed that buttfumble isn't very good. Jets fans, NFL fans, analysts, they'd all tell you the same thing.

    I don't blame him for 2012 but just because the talent around him is poor doesn't make it ok for him to make the same dumb mistakes he was making when the talent around him was good.

    The difference between Ben and Eli compared to Mark is huge. Those two eventually put it all together. Mark never could.
    Let's go game by game from his first 2 years

    2009:

    at Hou- good game W
    vs. NE- good game W
    vs. Ten good game W
    at NO- terrible game, L
    at Mia- good game, L
    vs. Buf- terrible game, L
    at Oak- didn't have to do much, W
    vs. Mia- good game, L
    vs. Jax- decent game, L
    at NE- terrible game, L
    vs. Car- good game, W
    at Buf- was having decent game until he got hurt, W
    vs. Atl- poor game, L
    at Ind- blah game, W
    vs. Cin- good game, W
    Playoffs:
    at Cin- great game, W
    at SD- very good game, W
    at Ind- ok game, L

    2010:
    vs. Bal- bad game, L
    vs. NE- great game, W
    at Mia- great game, W
    at Buf- good game, W
    vs. Min- good game, W
    at Den- ok game, W
    vs. GB, bad game, L
    at Det- good game, W
    at Cle- good game, W
    vs. Hou- good game, W
    vs. Cin- bad game, W
    at NE- bad game, L
    vs. Mia- bad game, L
    at Pitt- excellent game, W
    at Chi- good game, L
    playoffs
    at Ind- decent game, W
    at NE- outstanding game, W
    at Pitt- good game, L


    In 2011 they were 8-5 when the D got blasted in Philly changing the course of our season. A week later we controlled the 1st half against the Giants w/ a 3rd and 10 from their 1 yd line and a chance to go up 10-3 or 14-3 and we allowed a game changing and season changing play for BOTH teams so while Mark didn't play well those last 3 weeks our team stunk too.


    The difference btw Ben and Mark is big, not Eli and mark. Switch the QBs for our playoff runs and they end up the same w/ NYG winning 2 SBs and NYJ losing 2 title games.
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  7. -57
    Jetsfan89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    Let's go game by game from his first 2 years

    2009:

    at Hou- good game W
    vs. NE- good game W
    vs. Ten good game W
    at NO- terrible game, L
    at Mia- good game, L
    vs. Buf- terrible game, L
    at Oak- didn't have to do much, W
    vs. Mia- good game, L
    vs. Jax- decent game, L
    at NE- terrible game, L
    vs. Car- good game, W
    at Buf- was having decent game until he got hurt, W
    vs. Atl- poor game, L
    at Ind- blah game, W
    vs. Cin- good game, W
    Playoffs:
    at Cin- great game, W
    at SD- very good game, W
    at Ind- ok game, L

    2010:
    vs. Bal- bad game, L
    vs. NE- great game, W
    at Mia- great game, W
    at Buf- good game, W
    vs. Min- good game, W
    at Den- ok game, W
    vs. GB, bad game, L
    at Det- good game, W
    at Cle- good game, W
    vs. Hou- good game, W
    vs. Cin- bad game, W
    at NE- bad game, L
    vs. Mia- bad game, L
    at Pitt- excellent game, W
    at Chi- good game, L
    playoffs
    at Ind- decent game, W
    at NE- outstanding game, W
    at Pitt- good game, L


    In 2011 they were 8-5 when the D got blasted in Philly changing the course of our season. A week later we controlled the 1st half against the Giants w/ a 3rd and 10 from their 1 yd line and a chance to go up 10-3 or 14-3 and we allowed a game changing and season changing play for BOTH teams so while Mark didn't play well those last 3 weeks our team stunk too.


    The difference btw Ben and Mark is big, not Eli and mark. Switch the QBs for our playoff runs and they end up the same w/ NYG winning 2 SBs and NYJ losing 2 title games.
    Houston, and Tennessee- Neither of those two games I would consider good. He managed the game, did a decent job, and didnt lose the game for his team despite turning the ball over twice against the Titans and throwing a pick 6 in Houston. But he was a rookie so its acceptable.

    New Orleans- He was awful, gave the team no chance. Threw his second pick 6 of the season when we were going in for a TD and turned the ball over 4 times. Geno got killed for doing it against Tennessee this year. That was a winnable game without his poor play.

    Miami- Define good. He was 12-24 with a TD. He completed 50% of his passes. He was fairly efficient. But good? He was average.

    Buffalo- Maybe the worst game i've ever seen a Jets starting QB play. 5 picks in a game where we lost by 3 points and had 2 RB's run for 100 yards. Terrible performance doesnt even define this game.

    Oakland- Rex wouldnt let him do much after witnessing the Buffalo game. We ran the ball 47 times and had 2 RB's top 100 yards. buttfumble threw the ball only 15 times. Advanced stats show he was poor in this game as well.

    Miami again- Played well, not great, but well enough to win.

    Jaguars- Same thing as Miami.

    New England- Completed 8 passes and had 5 turnovers, thats atrocious. Another game buttfumble gave us no shot to win.

    Carolina and Buffalo- Was asked to manage the game and not lose it, and he did. Kudos to him for doing that.

    Atlanta- 3 more picks and outside of a long TD pass to Braylon couldnt move the ball all game.

    Colts- Asked not to lose the game and didnt. We had two backs again both go for 100. buttfumble played well in what he was asked to do.

    Bengals- Come on Junc, he threw for 63 yards on 16 passes. You can't tell me he was good.

    Bengals WC Round- He threw the ball very well the 15 times he was asked to. Can't penalize him for having a great running game but he was not asked to do much. He was asked not to lose and he didnt.

    Chargers Divisional Round- He was 12-23 for 100 yards with 1td and 1 pick. How is that very good? Thats below average at best. Thank god for Jim Leonard.

    Indy- I'd actually say he played well.

    I'm not going to go into the other seasons but its more of the same with him. 2010 was a little better. He started to learn how to win games on his own. But he never figured out how to not completely implode and lose them as well. 2011 and 2012 were huge steps back in his development. I take back what I said about the Bills game being the worst game i've ever seen a Jets QB play. I think he topped himself in 2010 against the Dolphins at home and then topped that again in 2011 against Baltimore on the road.

    When the guy is asked to manage a game behind a great O-Line and running game he is serviceable. But that's not what you are supposed to get when you draft a QB 5th overall.

    buttfumble's advanced statistics are scary bad. The guy plays slightly below average with no pressure. When he is faced with pressure or blitzed he's awful. There are plenty of QB's sitting on their couch who with all day to throw can manage a game. Like I said though you can't overlook the post season play. I think he has some talent. He's not Leaf or Russell or somebody like that. But a franchise QB he is not.
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  8. -58
    BleedinGreenNC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyjunc View Post
    other than the 4 playoff wins which double the next most of any QB in Jets history. Is that it? he gave us a chance to reach 2 SBs which our overrated Ds choked in to prevent us from going. He got us closer to a SB than at any point since SB III.

    He had ONE bad year, a year w/ the worst offensive talent in the league(healthy talent) and Tony Sparano running things w/ the Tebow distraction hovering over the team.

    This is why Jet fans don't deserve a winner, we finally have a guy we can win big with and they want him gone b/c he sucked in a situation no QB could succeed in.

    Obviously I know Mark's career as a Jet is over(barring something incredibly crazy) but I'd take a healthy Mark on my team any day. It's not his fault since 2010 the talent eroded around him.

    He went from Braylon, Holmes, Cotch and Keller in 2010 to:

    -losing Braylon and getting an older WR who just spent 2 years in prison, picking up an old WR in camp and having 3 of his top 5 weapons out of football the next year.

    -in 2012 he saw Chaz Schilens starting, he lost Holmes and his favorite target keller, Clyde Gates couldn't make the dolphins yet he played a prominent role for us picking him up after the season began.


    Mark has proven he can win big in this league but you need talent. heck, look at Eli w/ talent Mark has never had and he's 0-5. Look at ben w/ little talent(still much more than mark had last year). Unless your name is Tom Brady you need talent to throw and handoff to in this league. When mark had it he won big, when he didn't he sucked much like Eli and ben are sucking w/ much more talent right now.

    Geno is hopefully our future, buttfumble needs to be on another team.
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  9. -59
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    Two Jets fans arguing about buttfumble on a Dolphins messageboard.
    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
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  10. -60
    Jetsfan89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phins_4_ever View Post
    Two Jets fans arguing about buttfumble on a Dolphins messageboard.
    Just because i'm a Jets fan doesnt mean I don't look at things from an unbiased perspective. We'll agree on things and disagree on others. I'm pretty confident i'm right but I guess the only way to find out is to see what buttfumble does the next time he is given another chance to start on a different team.

    Or we could evaluate where Geno is at the end of year 1 (with less talent) compared to where buttfumble was.
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