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Thread: hoops scoops...oline problems...time to think short term fixes

  1. -1
    hooshoops's Avatar
    Ryan tannehill...like a boss

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    hoops scoops...oline problems...time to think short term fixes

    i'll preface this by saying that i used the word short term cause i don't see some magical in house fixes or long term solutions here with these personnel and this scheme...being that we are too far in at this stage to change the scheme up front what my focus has changed to is trying to implement the personnel we do have in packages etc that help to shore up what has become a gaping wound...the oline

    the good news is the timing for change could not be better...our qb is still healthy our season is not up in flames we are into a bye week where personnel changes and package implementation should be rather seamless from a knowing your assignments and executing them in practice aspect etc...

    the other good news is that the team ie the oc and the staff knows that the oline is a problem and needs help...case in point 4th and 10 just around a minute left in the ravens game we come out in a set with both a tight end clay and a rb lamar miller in the backfield on either side of tannehill kept in to help the struggling and that's a kind word ots with the ravens front...game on the line clay helps clabo and eliminates suggs on the right side lamar miller goes to chip dumervil with his shoulder but martin is beaten so badly with power to the inside that he gets cork screwed into the ground and miller can't even make contact with the outside shoulder help...we know the rest...tannehill escapes a free outside arm pressure of dumervil and rolls to his weak side across his body vs what had become a jailbreak at that point for a 46 yard dime completion...

    the bye week is a perfect time to get more guys reps with the 1's...the only guy who shouldn't be in the rotation is dallas thomas...you redshirt that as he is completely not ready to contribute and you could ruin him if you send him out to be embarrassed...you get watkins run at guard and garner run at right tackle guard and even center and yeatman run at both tackles and something else that we will get to...and barring watkins is showing like a dumpster fire you activate him for the buffalo game...in fact you barring you benching clabo (which should be done already by now and frankly should be cut cause he's got nothing left) activate 8 offensive lineman next week...you sit a guy at another position pick one i dont really care what fringe lb or corner whatever doesn't dress...but you dress all 8 lineman so if and when one ends up looking like crap and killing you with their play you have options just waiting to take his place and show what he's got...no reason not to activate 8 lineman off the way this unit has been playing thru 5 games...

    our issues all begin with the inability to run the ball...we get behind the sticks or force tannehill and the protection to convert long downs and distances and tax our already suspect pass protection too much...the running game must get going or the oline issues will continue to derail our season...i don't know about you guys but every time i see a long down and distance 5 man protection and even a single back in pass pro i'm cringing...

    so how do we get this running game going with such poor athletic fits for this scheme and guys who laterally lack the ability to get to things in space or overcome not perfect angles??? hmmm...i have thought about it long and hard and i think i have come up with something that will help...

    go with more extra olineman on the field packages on early downs...specifically will yeatman as a 3rd tackle...many people think 3rd ot means jumbo sets well not necessarily...you can still run 2 wide receiver single back single tight end sets or even 3 wide sets...and you get a man power advantage in the running game where you have a move athlete like will yeatman able to get out in space or get to lbs at the 2nd level etc and you can also use that extra ot on the line of scrimmage to double defenders and give you better numbers and more options...

    so why did i choose yeatman as the guy??? his issues right now in pass pro revolve around poor technique and hand placement he can get to things in space and cut guys that frankly no one else on the oline other than pouncey can...he can help in pass pro either of your starting ots and allow them to focus on not getting beat to the inside with power...something that really showed ugly with both clabo and martin vs the ravens...and also if he's lined up on the outside he's the best move athlete to get to and make sustained contact on wide runs etc...

    also yeatman would help us work the field vertical off pa and give tannehill the time to find wallace on deep crossers vs zone and max protect 2 wr sets etc...you would trust yeatman more than you would a dion sims for instance...

    why not garner??? well i think he's the first man in line to replace tyson clabo at right tackle if not already getting reps as the #1 right tackle in practice...imo our oline would be at least serviceable if we got better play at right tackle and didn't have to help the position as much as we are and could focus on helping the left side but i don't know that garner is a easy solution and he's another guy that athletically is not a great scheme fit...still with the way clabo looks i'd be finding out what he could handle

    so who suffers with this kind of change to try and get in front of the sticks on early downs??? well for one the slot wr gibson comes off the field more and gets less run...ideally you don't have to do it and i don't like it cause i think gibby is proving to be a win option on the inside but we have to do what we have to do at this point...so sorry gibby your run comes more on 3rd downs etc and ideally if we can keep those 3rd downs to more manageable you will get the ball a plenty anyways and move the chains...

    tight end dion sims suffers cause the ot in yeatman essentially makes a primary in line guy like sims not a part of things...but you'll notice that we have been going with more clay on the field anyways cause of his versatility and mismatch ability and he can be lined up in the backfield or flexed out in the extra ot package...frankly this is a smart move imo...he will still get his red zone run and some specific package run but yeatman is implemented to jump start the run game and help the pass pro...

    the other thing that suffers is shermans ability to be dynamic with the offense...takes away a lot of the fast paced no huddle potential cause you will probably pull yeatman on some sets and you will be swapping personnel more...but it doesn't appear that we are ready yet to run a full no huddle offense so it is what it is...and if we don't protect the qb better than we have and run the ball with more success a dynamic offense will never happen anyways...at this point it's about preservation of the qb and trying to stay in front of the sticks with the running game...not about hanging 35 points on teams

    yes the offense becomes less explosive and intuitive but you help give your qb and the protection you must play with better downs and distances and limit the oppositions ability to use blitz packages in the process especially those interior delayed blitzes we have such a problem picking up with the backs...

    one things for sure...sticking with the same ole same ole isn't gonna get it done...it's time the oc and oline coach earn their keep and make adjustments scheme and personnel wise before it's too late...

    but the bottom line here is at the end of the season one of two things needs to happen...we either find guys that fit this oline scheme we want to run or we change up the scheme to fit the personnel we have...til we do this offense can never operate at maximum potential and efficiency
    hoops scoops 2012 season ..."in 2014 ryan tannehill etches his name in stone amongst the games elite qbs"..."ryan tannehill and andrew luck will carry the afc for the next decade plus the way peyton manning and tom brady have this last decade plus"
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    Lets get those balls deep!!

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    So basically go back to preseason mode for the oline? I think the plan you have sounds good. The question I have is, if the oline practices against our dline every practice, is tannehill getting no time in practice? I would think that the oline would be great due to practicing against one of the best front 7s in the NFL. Do the coaches tell the dline to take it easy during practice?

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    Rookie

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    I don't think the O-Line can be significantly upgraded this year. I think you can get around the weaknesses it has by changing the offensive scheme: more quick passes, balanced play-calling and things of that nature. That's the best way to adjust at this point.
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    Shouright's Avatar
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    I appreciate the analysis, but do you really think the issue is best addressed with a guy who hasn't played a single snap (Yeatman)?

    I would be much less opposed to moving Clay back to the role he was in when Keller was healthy (a hybrid fullback/H-back), and using Sims in line, on running downs, using both players primarily as blockers in the run game, but occasionally surprising defenses with the unexpected play-action pass to either of them.

    That way you're going with guys who are used to what they're doing out there, as opposed to a guy who hasn't played at all, and the threat of the pass is still very much present in the personnel grouping.
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  5. -5
    hooshoops's Avatar
    Ryan tannehill...like a boss

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    the 3 step drops and quick passing game requires offensive tackles who are adept at cutting guys in throwing lanes etc something other than pouncey we don't have a high end efficiency guy at in the oline unit...also while the idea may be down the line to try and use the quick short passing game as a form of the running game to stay in front of the sticks you will be hardpressed to find a team with a 2nd year qb who runs it with real efficiency let alone one with as few college and pro starts as ryan tannehill...

    again this is about jump starting the running game to take pressure off the suspect protection...adding more dion sims in line and clay in the backfield as h back/fullback combo hasn't jump started our running game...nor is there any reason to think that it will at this stage...thus it's time to go wth some different personnel and formations and to use an extra olineman on the field to give better odds and be able to attack with double teams individual players and be more effective in space...what i am talking about is what the patriots did with nate solder his rookie year...essentially made him the 3rd tackle on the field...when solder first came out he was not ready to play an every down nfl left tackle or tackle period the pats eased him into things and also gave themselves a man power and extra protection player to help matt light at the tail end of his career...imo yeatman is as physically gifted an olineman and scheme fit as we have in this unit we would be giving him good game reps for the future and attempting to jumpstart a dead running game and providing more protection for the qb to work off pa vertical etc...
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    Galactic Empire medalManchester United FCPS4 ControllerCam Wake 912013 Dolphins Logo
    edit: delete please mods
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    uk_dolfan's Avatar
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    a simple question hoops

    forget who we have on the roster - do you like zone or would you prefer a power based systen
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    hooshoops's Avatar
    Ryan tannehill...like a boss

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    Quote Originally Posted by uk_dolfan View Post
    a simple question hoops

    forget who we have on the roster - do you like zone or would you prefer a power based systen
    well considering our passing offense i like zone...
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    hooshoops's Avatar
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    well sounds like we are going with the same 5...oh well...maybe there's still hope that yeatman can be the 6th guy they are hiding from the media...

    one of three things has to happen here if we stick with status quo...either we decide to go full bore no huddle with our existing 5 and try and whoop people with our tempo, we decide to stop running so much wide stuff with this stiff group and start running inside b/t the tackles where the guards especially can play a power straight ahead game or we start using roll outs to move the pocket at least 5-6 times per game to try and keep the wolves off tannehill...

    the move the pocket thing is a no brainer but to jump start this running game and get into more 2nd and 6's etc either go full no huddle or run the ball more inside...good luck running inside against the jets interior d front though...
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    I Don't Play . .That's Y I Failed P.E.

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    The fact that we didn't make any changes is a big indictment on the overall talent/depth of the oline on this team. You have a 2 year pet project (Yeatman), a former first round pick (Watkins) a versatile veteran (Garner) and a rookie 3rd round pick (Thomas) . . . we have the worst performing starting offensive line in the league and none of these guys can crack the lineup? That isn't good enough for me man. These guys better have shown much improvement come Sunday or somebody needs to be held accountable.
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