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Thread: 2014 QB Draft

  1. -1
    WVDolphan's Avatar
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    2014 QB Draft

    Its almost November which of course is the annual signal for draft talk time for phins fans.

    Id love to hear from Dr. Slimm on this one as the phins of course need to be carefully looking at this years crop of QBs. We all shouldve listened to him when he had reservations about reaching for Tannehill at pick 8 in 2012. Im sorry I didnt, and Dr. Slimm........ Im listening. Where do we go here? Im not familiar with all of these QBs and honestly of the ones Ive seen, Aaron Murray is the only one I think could play in the NFL, Im just not sure if he is a top notch player.

    I know there is Bridgewater, but it seems he will go early. Personally, I dont want him anyway. I thought Bridgewater was a good player back when he was a freshman. I remember getting crucified in these parts when I told mountaineer fans he was better than Geno's Myth. I dont see Bridgewater as an elite NFL QB though. I personally wouldnt take him in round 1 but, it appears we are safe from him because he will likely go early.

    Then there is Murray. Im not sure where he is projecting right now. When I saw this kid years ago I thought he was an NFL QB. The only hesitation I had with him is he had a tendency to throw INTs at the worst possible times. He seems to have broken that habit lately, but Im still not 100% on him. If I had to say right now, he would be the guy I would take though if he falls to us. I know he has the arm and he seems like a smart kid.

    I saw a post by Slimm about Manziel earlier and I think he is right. Manziel is a special player, Im just not sure he can play in the NFL with that size. Im not sure he is 1st round material either. Great competitor, but he needs to curb the attitude a bit. A lot of maturing still to do with this kid.

    Slimm, can you give us the run down on this years QB class. Break it down A-Z if you would please. Where will these guys fall in draft position and who would you see as a good pick for the phins?

    Bill Belichick on "putting the tape on"
    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/18/belichick-takes-a-shot-at-experts-who-have-it-all-figured-out/


    and i say it's tom brady with better legs...he reads the field presnap like tom brady...reminds me so much of him although tannehills ahead of bradys development in year 2 imo
    Quote Originally Posted by JCane View Post
    Well I'll be damned. WV was right again and called this weeks in advance and everyone gets mad at him.


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    MadDog 88's Avatar
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    If Tannehill is not the answer and he was drafted by Ireland, then the first course of action is firing Ireland. If he missed once on the most important position you don't give him a second chance. Obviously you then install a coaching system and evaluate the requirement you need at QB.

    As for drafting a QB I am all for drafting one each year until they get it right. Curious to see how the 2014 class lines up because as of right now, there doesn't appear to be a can't miss guy. Manziel is a nice idea and I am starting to dismiss the notion that you need great size in todays NFL. I echo the concern with his lack of maturity.
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    TedSlimmJr's Avatar
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    Watch David Fales, Keith Wenning, or Jimmy Garappolo if you get a chance.
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    Kdawg954's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadDog 88 View Post
    If Tannehill is not the answer and he was drafted by Ireland, then the first course of action is firing Ireland. If he missed once on the most important position you don't give him a second chance. Obviously you then install a coaching system and evaluate the requirement you need at QB.

    As for drafting a QB I am all for drafting one each year until they get it right. Curious to see how the 2014 class lines up because as of right now, there doesn't appear to be a can't miss guy. Manziel is a nice idea and I am starting to dismiss the notion that you need great size in todays NFL. I echo the concern with his lack of maturity.
    You could argue Ireland had Henne and Tannehill . . . a 3rd QB is out of the question. If Ross were even to entertain the thought of giving him a 3rd choice we then would know who the real problem is.
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    Mudder1310's Avatar
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    Derek Carr is another cat getting a lot of run. Manziel, Mariota, Hundley if they come out. Logan Thomas has talent. Lots of interesting QBs in the next couple drafts.
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    j-off-her-doll's Avatar
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    I don't think Mariota has the mental makeup of an NFL QB. Seems like a really nice guy, does well academically, and he has great physical traits. To me, he looks shaky when things break down. That offense is such a machine that you rarely see things break down, but when they do, he doesn't handle those situations with grace. I think that Oregon offense would struggle against Alabama. I doubt they'd score over 30. I can see a plight similar to RG3's for Mariota. Looks great for a few games running a read-option offense. Gets hurt. Coaches try to protect him, and everyone sees the flaws the unsustainable system was masking.

    His antithesis (in that regard) would be Johnny Manziel, and that's the only reason he's able to light up Alabama. He can consistently make the play outside the play - though he's done a much better job this year of getting the ball out of his hands quickly, when it's the best play. Nick Saban is too great to beaten by a system and some fast players. He's going to take away options, make adjustments, and make you feel uncomfortable. You need a great effort by a QB to beat that with any type of consistency. Newton did it a few years ago, because he's a physical freak with great running instincts. I actually think the traits that allow Manziel to be so competitive with that Alabama D are more translatable to the NFL than Newton's. Instincts, vision, feet, ball placement, and veins that pump ice water. After Slimm wrote that really terrific response on Manziel, I mentioned that Manziel pretty well fits the description of Bill Walsh's ideal QB. In fact, when reading through the list of tangible and intangible attributes that Walsh looks for in a QB, the two QB's who immediately came to mind were Joe Montana and Johnny Manziel. He's definitely walking a fine line with his ego. As it stands, I think it's one of the key things that fuels his competitive drive, but if his ego gets any bigger, I'd start to worry a bit. To me, the upside is Joe Montana. He's definitely not as clean as you'd like for a #1 overall pick, but if I were the Jaguars, I'd be happy to take him #1.

    I don't think Hundley should enter the 2014 draft. Think his mechanics started breaking down these last two weeks (when I started noticing, anyway). Against Nebraska, he looked really clean. Not a lot of wasted motion in his delivery, used his feet well, played on balance. I understand struggling against better competition, but if you're losing your mechanics and playing off balance against PAC 12 D's, I think that's a serious problem when looking forward to the NFL.
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    Hundley, Mariota, and Manziel are all sophs which makes me think they all go back to school, though Manziel probably is done with school as a whole. I think Mariota gives you everything Manziel does except that killer instinct. He makes less mistakes but doesn't do the truly incredible.
    Failure isn't fatal. Failure to change might be. - John Wooden
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    WVDolphan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedSlimmJr View Post
    Watch David Fales, Keith Wenning, or Jimmy Garappolo if you get a chance.
    Im not familiar with these players. Could you expand on this topic a bit?
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  9. -9
    TedSlimmJr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j-off-her-doll View Post
    I don't think Mariota has the mental makeup of an NFL QB. Seems like a really nice guy, does well academically, and he has great physical traits. To me, he looks shaky when things break down. That offense is such a machine that you rarely see things break down, but when they do, he doesn't handle those situations with grace. I think that Oregon offense would struggle against Alabama. I doubt they'd score over 30. I can see a plight similar to RG3's for Mariota. Looks great for a few games running a read-option offense. Gets hurt. Coaches try to protect him, and everyone sees the flaws the unsustainable system was masking.

    His antithesis (in that regard) would be Johnny Manziel, and that's the only reason he's able to light up Alabama. He can consistently make the play outside the play - though he's done a much better job this year of getting the ball out of his hands quickly, when it's the best play. Nick Saban is too great to beaten by a system and some fast players. He's going to take away options, make adjustments, and make you feel uncomfortable. You need a great effort by a QB to beat that with any type of consistency. Newton did it a few years ago, because he's a physical freak with great running instincts. I actually think the traits that allow Manziel to be so competitive with that Alabama D are more translatable to the NFL than Newton's. Instincts, vision, feet, ball placement, and veins that pump ice water. After Slimm wrote that really terrific response on Manziel, I mentioned that Manziel pretty well fits the description of Bill Walsh's ideal QB. In fact, when reading through the list of tangible and intangible attributes that Walsh looks for in a QB, the two QB's who immediately came to mind were Joe Montana and Johnny Manziel. He's definitely walking a fine line with his ego. As it stands, I think it's one of the key things that fuels his competitive drive, but if his ego gets any bigger, I'd start to worry a bit. To me, the upside is Joe Montana. He's definitely not as clean as you'd like for a #1 overall pick, but if I were the Jaguars, I'd be happy to take him #1.

    I don't think Hundley should enter the 2014 draft. Think his mechanics started breaking down these last two weeks (when I started noticing, anyway). Against Nebraska, he looked really clean. Not a lot of wasted motion in his delivery, used his feet well, played on balance. I understand struggling against better competition, but if you're losing your mechanics and playing off balance against PAC 12 D's, I think that's a serious problem when looking forward to the NFL.


    I'll say this in order to add to my take on Manziel.... he is still developing as a passer. He's just breaking SEC records while he's doing it.

    Do not lose sight of the fact that this is still a kid who's only a redshirt sophomore with 20 collegiate football starts under his belt. It would be 21 if he hadn't been suspended by Kevin Sumlin for the first half of the season opener against Rice.

    The difference with Manziel as opposed to a quarterback like Mariota, is that Manziel is having to lay it all on the line every week in the SEC to make up for his team's putrid defense. Mariota is typically sitting on the sidelines in the 4th quarter of Oregon's blowouts. The thing that has really come to the surface this season for Johnny Manziel, perhaps above all else, is what a fierce competitor he is. I've watched Alabama's defense make more quarterbacks literally wilt and quit in the past 5-6 years than I can ever remember. Most quarterbacks would never have made it out of that 35-14 lead Bama had on aTm.... Manziel had just thrown a pick 6 to Vinny Sunseri to make it so.

    However, it was Manziel's response from that point on that counted. He displayed incredible leadership and competitive spirit when a lot people, including myself... didn't even know if he had it. Johnny Football nearly brought his team back for the win against impossible odds. He piled up nearly 500 yards passing and almost another 100 yards on the ground in a situation where a lot of great college quarterbacks have melted against Alabama and Coach Saban's relentless onslaught. Of all the many amazing things that I've seen Manziel do on a football field, this response was easily the most impressive on me.

    He's continued to play with that edge. Watch the Ole Miss game... aTm was in big trouble, and Manziel was hurting... beat to hell and back. He kept sacrificing his body in full speed train wrecks with SEC linebackers just to achieve another critical first down when plays broke down. One of them so violent in fact, that Ole Miss's leading tackler, Serderius Bryant, didn't get up from one of 'em. Everyone in the stadium thought he broke his neck tackling Manziel.

    He gave it all against Auburn with bad shoulder. Here's my point... whether Manziel "translates" to the NFL or not is a little irrelevant to me. I'm an extremely luke warm fan of the NFL in general as it is. I like to watch Peyton Manning and Drew Brees play the quarterback position. I like to watch Calvin Johnson. I like to watch Adrian Peterson run the football. That's about it.

    However, I think everyone should just enjoy having a player like this while he's around....at least if you're a fan of college football. Because they don't come around often. It doesn't matter whether he becomes a franchise NFL quarterback or not to me. I know enough to realize how special of a talent he is.

    As for his draft stock, I only know of two quarterbacks under 6'1" that have ever been drafted in the 1st round. Rex Grossman and Michael Vick. I won't have a top 10 grade on Manziel simply based on the risk factor, both in terms of height and immaturity. He can grow mentally into a man... he's not growing any taller.

    Lastly, and I'll depart on this note.... I see at minimum 20 teams in the NFL trotting quarterbacks out every Sunday that aren't as good as Johnny Manziel. He's worth the risk in that sense alone.
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    TedSlimmJr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WVDolphan View Post
    Im not familiar with these players. Could you expand on this topic a bit?

    David Fales is a JUCO transfer that pulls the trigger for San Jose St.'s offense out on the west coast. He reminds me a lot of Aaron Rodgers during his Cal days in terms of accuracy, quick release, and mobility. He's a JUCO transfer that will have 2 years of D-1 football under his belt when he enters the draft.... just like Aaron Rodgers. He led a talentless San Jose St. team to an 11-2 record last year and a top 25 ranking. He come within 3 points of upsetting a top-10 Stanford team despite how overmatched they were from a personnel and coaching standpoint. This season, he's only played 2 games with his top receiver, Noel Grigsby. He got hurt in the 2nd game of the season and hasn't been able to make it back. Either way, he's passed for over 900 yards and 8 TD's the last 2 weeks throwing to scrubs, and no running game to speak of. What's impressive about Fales is that he's making throws downfield and into tight coverage. He's not throwing a series of bubble screens.

    Keith Wenning is Ball St.'s triggerman... and that's exactly what he does. You'll like him because he's a carbon copy of Chad Pennington. Throws that accurate, soft, catchable ball with tremendous arc. Makes brilliant decisions with the football. Big, prototype pocket passer.

    Jimmy Garappolo is the quarterback at Eastern Illinois (Tony Romo's alma mater). Blazing fast release with excellent feet. What I like the most about Garappolo is how he runs the entire offense at the line of scrimmage and forced to recognize matchups. He's going to fit in well with a team that likes to run uptempo and identify matchups that favor the offense.
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