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Thread: Reall, Oprah?

  1. -41
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackFinfan View Post
    If they aren't the best person for the job, then you're judging based on credentials, which obviously isn't racist. I don't think anyone has stated that all Republicans are racist because they didn't vote for a black guy. You can count me in this group too, because I didn't vote for Obama in his 2nd term due to his broken promises and poor performance.

    As for your 2nd question, I think it's a bit more complicated. I think we have to understand that a minority identifying with his/her race is much different than a white person. I can't speak for all white people, but since 75% of the people I come in contact with everyday are white, I don't identify with such a broad category as white. I tend to delve deeper, and I assume many white people do the same.

    For example, I'm 29 and completely bald on the top of my head, just like my father, I went bald early. I identify with fellow bald men, because I know we both have shared experiences. I identify even more with a guy who went bad early in his life. Once again, I just know that the individual had many of the same feelings, struggles, dilemmas, emotions, etc. that I had to deal with. Now when I had a full head of hair, I never identified with another individual with a full head of hair. Even though we both had a common trait, there was no common experience. Just having hair isn't an identifiable trait. But, certain characteristics among full haired individuals can be identifiable, like people who both have hair that is hard to keep down (nappy, extremely curly, etc.).

    That's how I feel about the white vice versa scenario you presented. Black people, because of their minority status and unique history, can identify with one another. They have shared experiences... they have faced similar obstacles. White people can't identify with white people solely based on being white (at least not in the USA). It's just too broad. It has to go another level down. White southerner, white city dweller, white only child, white with a big family.
    I think this post may answer my question in my last post. So what time table or stipulations do you put on this? In other words, when is it no longer okay for a black person to do this? I ask this because as long as we have the Sharpton's and Jackson's (people profiting off of accusing people of racism when it is not necessarily the case) we will always have a perception of inequality whether it is true or not (we'll save that argument for another thread, please). So when is it no longer okay, in your opinion? It will be hard to take away (in the future) a behavior that a number of people in society deem acceptable now.
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  2. -42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap View Post
    So let me get this right, when you said this...


    ... you weren't implying that a white person voting for a white person because he or she identifies with a person who is white (based on his or her color) is not racist?



    I disagree with the idea of identifying based on color not being racist.
    I've already stated my thoughts on a white person identifying with a white person. I think I've provided a well thought out explanation as to why you can't just do the vice versa thing and call it the same. If you'd like to contest any of my points, I'd be happy to defend them, but just saying you don't agree, or restating points I've already addressed doesn't seem to progress the conversation.
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  3. -43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap View Post
    I think this post may answer my question in my last post. So what time table or stipulations do you put on this? In other words, when is it no longer okay for a black person to do this? I ask this because as long as we have the Sharpton's and Jackson's (people profiting off of accusing people of racism when it is not necessarily the case) we will always have a perception of inequality whether it is true or not (we'll save that argument for another thread, please). So when is it no longer okay, in your opinion? It will be hard to take away (in the future) a behavior that a number of people in society deem acceptable now.
    Great question. I would say when being black doesn't create unique hurdles, situations, and hardships then there would be little to nothing in regards to shared experiences. Just like my being Irish no longer creates a unique set of circumstances for how I live in the USA, thus I don't identify with other Irish people. If I was an Irish immigrant in the 1800's/early 1900's, I would have identified with my Irish brothers.


    (Edited) All of my black friends hate Sharpton and Jackson just as much as you do. They water down the word racism.
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  4. -44
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    I've never been anything but myself, so I can't say how hard it is to be someone else, just as they can't fairly assess how hard it is to be me. That being said, I know that the life choices that I make, the way I carry myself, and the way I consistently communicate with others ultimately shapes my destiny. If I create a good persona for myself and deliver a product that people desire, I will succeed no matter what people want to think of me or my race. I tend to believe that the color of our skin does not change this basic concept. To believe that anyone has any major advantage or disadvantage over anyone else (who is not handicapped in some way) seems ridiculous to me. I guess I'm just a "no excuses" type of guy.
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  5. -45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap View Post
    I've never been anything but myself, so I can't say how hard it is to be someone else, just as they can't fairly assess how hard it is to be me. That being said, I know that the life choices that I make, the way I carry myself, and the way I consistently communicate with others ultimately shapes my destiny. If I create a good persona for myself and deliver a product that people desire, I will succeed no matter what people want to think of me or my race. I tend to believe that the color of our skin does not change this basic concept. To believe that anyone has any major advantage or disadvantage over anyone else (who is not handicapped in some way) seems ridiculous to me. I guess I'm just a "no excuses" type of guy.
    Kind of easy to be a no excuses guy when you're a white male. We don't have any excuses. When I step into an interview, there are 0 negative stereotypes in the interviewers head. We get to be clean slates everywhere we go. The same cannot be said about a black individual. Just look at Charlie Strong and that billionaire booster McCombs. Strong is a guy who has created a great persona, carries himself well, makes great life choices, yet a booster called him unqualified for the Texas HC position. You're talking about a big time booster who actually had a say in the previous coaching hire. Now in this case, the AD decided to hire Strong despite the ignorant booster, but you don't think people like McCombs have managed to keep qualified minorities from getting hired and promoted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackFinfan View Post
    Kind of easy to be a no excuses guy when you're a white male. We don't have any excuses. When I step into an interview, there are 0 negative stereotypes in the interviewers head. We get to be clean slates everywhere we go. The same cannot be said about a black individual. Just look at Charlie Strong and that billionaire booster McCombs. Strong is a guy who has created a great persona, carries himself well, makes great life choices, yet a booster called him unqualified for the Texas HC position. You're talking about a big time booster who actually had a say in the previous coaching hire. Now in this case, the AD decided to hire Strong despite the ignorant booster, but you don't think people like McCombs have managed to keep qualified minorities from getting hired and promoted.
    No one has any excuses (not just the white male), in my opinion. We can all be subject to the ignorance of others. The interview? That depends on who is interviewing you, I guess. Are you overweight? Short? What race is the interviewer? Your assumption of having 0 negative stereotypes is under the assumption that no one could possibly look at you and have an issue, or that the white male can not be subject to racism. Are you implying that people of other races are never racist? The example you just gave makes me think.... if the ignorance of a booster can keep him from getting that one job, is that one job really a healthy atmosphere to begin with? Why would he want to work for such ignorant people to begin with? Now, looking deeper at it, you said that the booster said he was not qualified, but you did not explain the reasoning the booster gave. Did he say it was because the guy is black, or are you assuming that is what he meant?
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  7. -47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap View Post
    No one has any excuses (not just the white male), in my opinion. We can all be subject to the ignorance of others. The interview? That depends on who is interviewing you, I guess. Are you overweight? Short? What race is the interviewer? Your assumption of having 0 negative stereotypes is under the assumption that no one could possibly look at you and have an issue, or that the white male can not be subject to racism. Are you implying that people of other races are never racist? The example you just gave makes me think.... if the ignorance of a booster can keep him from getting that one job, is that one job really a healthy atmosphere to begin with? Why would he want to work for such ignorant people to begin with? Now, looking deeper at it, you said that the booster said he was not qualified, but you did not explain the reasoning the booster gave. Did he say it was because the guy is black, or are you assuming that is what he meant?
    I think you kind of proved my point in regards to the interview. You had to go another level down in order to come up with an example of how you could be stereotyped. White and short, white and fat, white and ugly, white and poor hygiene. You couldn't just say white. That's pretty much my point. A black person could be fit, normal height, good looking, and well groomed, yet still face a stereotype. I'm not saying it's a gigantic crutch, and of course it depends on the interviewer. But, to suggest that it's all on an even playing field and only merit matters, is a bit naive.

    Not sure if you follow college football, but I think Lou could tell you, saying Strong is unqualified for a HC position is pretty silly. McCombs also said he'd be qualified for a position coach, maybe a coordinator job. You're talking about a guy who was a coordinator on a NC team took Lville to a BCS game, and beat down the #2 SEC team in the country. I can't help you if you can't read between the lines on those quotes. As for not taking a job because there are ignorant people in the organization. I'm sure Strong accepted the job knowing there were going to be some good ole boys not happy with the hire. You can't worry about the opinions of the ignorant. But, you did a nice job of avoiding my point. Strong is nothing but a class act, and yet he still has to deal with dilemmas like accepting a great job when there are ignorant individuals within the organization. That also brings this topic full circle. That is a common experience that many black people share, which as I've already stated, is the main reason why black people identify with other black people.
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  8. -48
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    Great job by you in this thread, Jack. Just excellent work.
    I'm giving you a choice: either put on these glasses or start eatin' that trash can.
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  9. -49
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackFinfan View Post
    I think you kind of proved my point in regards to the interview. You had to go another level down in order to come up with an example of how you could be stereotyped. White and short, white and fat, white and ugly, white and poor hygiene. You couldn't just say white. That's pretty much my point. A black person could be fit, normal height, good looking, and well groomed, yet still face a stereotype. I'm not saying it's a gigantic crutch, and of course it depends on the interviewer. But, to suggest that it's all on an even playing field and only merit matters, is a bit naive.

    Not sure if you follow college football, but I think Lou could tell you, saying Strong is unqualified for a HC position is pretty silly. McCombs also said he'd be qualified for a position coach, maybe a coordinator job. You're talking about a guy who was a coordinator on a NC team took Lville to a BCS game, and beat down the #2 SEC team in the country. I can't help you if you can't read between the lines on those quotes. As for not taking a job because there are ignorant people in the organization. I'm sure Strong accepted the job knowing there were going to be some good ole boys not happy with the hire. You can't worry about the opinions of the ignorant. But, you did a nice job of avoiding my point. Strong is nothing but a class act, and yet he still has to deal with dilemmas like accepting a great job when there are ignorant individuals within the organization. That also brings this topic full circle. That is a common experience that many black people share, which as I've already stated, is the main reason why black people identify with other black people.
    Negative. I just pointed out additional ways that a white man could be could be treated unfairly. White, or short, or fat. You misunderstood my post. Good try though.

    I do not follow college football, but what I do see as evident is that you are reading between the lines. Sometimes when we do this we read what we want to read. You could be right or you could be wrong, but since you misunderstood my post rather easily (reading it the way you wanted to) I would have to assume that maybe you could be doing the same there. Either way, I stand by my post and my philosophy of it all.
    Last edited by Scrap; 01-09-2014 at 07:59 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap View Post
    Negative. I just pointed out additional ways that a white man could be could be treated unfairly. White, or short, or fat. You misunderstood my post. Good try though.

    I do not follow college football, but what I do see as evident is that you are reading between the lines. Sometimes when we do this we read what we want to read. You could be right or you could be wrong, but since you misunderstood my post rather easily (reading it the way you wanted to) I would have to assume that maybe you could be doing the same there. Either way, I stand by my post and my philosophy of it all.
    So if I misunderstood your point, and you are claiming "white or (negative feature)" not "white and (negative feature) can be negatively stereotyped, could you give me an example? I'll set up a scenerio for you. XYZ company is hiring a mid level manager. The interviewer has a list of index cards that represent potential hires. On these index cards are only 2 things. Name and race. The interviewer picks up the card and reads John Doe....White. Could you list me all the negative stereotypes that you claim would run through the interviewers head?
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