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Thread: Fast food workers going on strike

  1. -41
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    Quote Originally Posted by jguig View Post
    The question is not whether he works hard. The minimum wage isn't based on how hard anyone works. That is merely the base rate for unskilled labor.

    In all markets there is a price set by the supply and demand. Labor is not different from eggs in this matter. More eggs in the market and the price comes down. Fewer and the price goes up.

    Labor has complicating features. The skill required to do jobs, and the education required put another layer of sophistication into the analysis. The job of a fry chef will have a different market established wage than that of an NFL quarterback. There are supply, demand, skill, knowledge, and ability issues that differentiate these jobs. Both professions require someone who will work hard to do the job. However, the NFL QB makes more because of the rarity of his job and the requisite background.

    When someone chooses a life of an unskilled laborer, they will always be paid at the bottom rung of society. It is their choice. You argue that people don't choose that? I disagree in most cases. Should you decide that school isn't important and you'd rather have fun, you have made yourself less marketable. Should you decide not to go to college, you have made yourself less marketable. Should you decide to engage in drugs/alcohol as a lifestyle, you have made yourself less marketable. Should you decide to have children when you are young, you have made yourself less marketable. Should you decide to have children out of wedlock, you have made yourself less marketable - and doomed your kids to poverty. The stats are compelling.

    So people, for the most part, decide to engage in behaviors that feel good now, but do not provide them with long range success. Then they blame society and expect someone else to pay for the outcomes that were entirely predictable in their life.
    Whole lot of obvious there and I'm not sure what your point is. Again I'm getting the feeling that you're insinuating that all the people who work these low paying jobs only do so because they've made bad decisions, and not that they're simply not genetically gifted with enough intelligence to ever work anything but those type of jobs. I feel that if someone's willing to work hard enough and long enough, they should be afforded a wage they can live on. A person who makes 7.25 an hour for forty hours a week and 56 weeks a year only makes 16,000 dollars before taxes. In a yes or no answer, is that acceptable in your opinion?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob19 View Post
    Whole lot of obvious there and I'm not sure what your point is. Again I'm getting the feeling that you're insinuating that all the people who work these low paying jobs only do so because they've made bad decisions, and not that they're simply not genetically gifted with enough intelligence to ever work anything but those type of jobs. I feel that if someone's willing to work hard enough and long enough, they should be afforded a wage they can live on. A person who makes 7.25 an hour for forty hours a week and 56 weeks a year only makes 16,000 dollars before taxes. In a yes or no answer, is that acceptable in your opinion?
    I was working construction a while ago and my experience with one guy in particular was pretty eye opening. I often found myself working with a Haitian immigrant and so I got to know him fairly well over that summer despite his English being a bit shaky. He, like most Haitians, found it impossible to make a living in Haiti. So he left his family, came here, got a work permit and found a minimum wage job. He has a son and a daughter he hardly ever sees. He works after hours trying to make any little bit he can to try send it back to Haiti and support his family. And its not much. He probably made about 15k a year. He lived in a shack, basically.

    I know some are going to say "well, yeah, hes an immigrant, hes not educated rah rah rah" but when you see a man that has had the deck stacked against him from birth busting ass, moving to a new country and basically sacrificing a great deal just to try get his kids a good education in a country where things like that are hard to come by, you start to appreciate the fact that maybe people like him getting an extra few dollars a month wouldnt be the worst thing ever.




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  3. -43
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    Quote Originally Posted by tylerdolphin View Post
    Ive done a lot of the same things you have. Im not lazy. I dont think anyone "owed" me anything except fair compensation for my time. I dont believe I was fairly compensated at minimum wage. Older people in my experience tend to not understand it because they dont realize how much more buying power they had at or around minimum wage years ago as opposed to now.

    Whats really crazy to me is that, in general, the same people who are tooth and nail against raising the minimum wage are the same ones that always complain about government assistance programs like food stamps and such. Maybe if people could afford food they would need food stamps. In mine and most peoples cases, minimum wage is temporary and we just needed it to stay afloat for a period. Im lucky I had middle class parents because the minimum wage cant keep anyone afloat even for a short period.
    Quote Originally Posted by rob19 View Post
    I think the narrative that “these people are only working the jobs they're working is because they don’t work hard enough” is simplistic and misguided. Some people just have a bad roll of the dice from a genetics stand point. In many cases they just don’t have the intelligence to get a substantially higher paying job. In a lot of cases it has nothing to do with how hard someone works.

    Minimum wage was $4.25 when I started washing dishes, well actually $3.80. Minimum wage went up about 2 bucks between 1978 ($2.65) until 1996 ($4.75) over an 18 year span, from 1996 until now ($7.25) it has gone up $2.50 in 17 years with it more than likely to go up again soon. 3% a year roughly and that is what they say the cost of living adjustment is for any standard job per year based on corporate averages in the US (it is a bull**** number but none the less it is the number).

    What people forgot is spending power is "your" power, yeah you need basic items to live, food, heat etc...but there are a ton of other things you don't need, Xbox, Internet, Digital Cable, data plans, unlimited texting, coach bags, Air Jordan's, etc...you want those things you don't need them.

    I know people who don't have a pot to piss in that have an xbox blazing away over the Internet, they don't have gas to get to work but somehow find a way to pay $60 to $80 a month for Internet. In the case of an immigrant from Haiti or a person who is "special", I agree they are busting their ass and doing the best they can, sometimes life deals a ****y hand, it is up to you what you do with it.

    My great-grandfather came on a boat from Italy with no education and spoke almost zero English. He had 12 kids and worked on the railroad driving spikes and laying track his whole life, he was the definition of tough and he didn't bitch or complain about his life. His younger kids and the older grandkids picked coal of the tracks to help heat the house, what the trains hit went into the sauce pot to feed the kids. He just worked and made the best of it, I"m here because of his toughness and commitment to busting his ass, I'd like to think that even in my worst times I didn't have it like he did so I just shut my mouth and worry about making it through whatever hard spot it is I am in at the time. I found one of his old paychecks in my Grandfather's desk years ago, at the end of his days on the railroad (1970) his pay check was $2.35 a week and he raised 12 kids on that amount.
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  4. -44
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY8123 View Post
    Minimum wage was $4.25 when I started washing dishes, well actually $3.80. Minimum wage went up about 2 bucks between 1978 ($2.65) until 1996 ($4.75) over an 18 year span, from 1996 until now ($7.25) it has gone up $2.50 in 17 years with it more than likely to go up again soon. 3% a year roughly and that is what they say the cost of living adjustment is for any standard job per year based on corporate averages in the US (it is a bull**** number but none the less it is the number).

    What people forgot is spending power is "your" power, yeah you need basic items to live, food, heat etc...but there are a ton of other things you don't need, Xbox, Internet, Digital Cable, data plans, unlimited texting, coach bags, Air Jordan's, etc...you want those things you don't need them.

    I know people who don't have a pot to piss in that have an xbox blazing away over the Internet, they don't have gas to get to work but somehow find a way to pay $60 to $80 a month for Internet. In the case of an immigrant from Haiti or a person who is "special", I agree they are busting their ass and doing the best they can, sometimes life deals a ****y hand, it is up to you what you do with it.

    My great-grandfather came on a boat from Italy with no education and spoke almost zero English. He had 12 kids and worked on the railroad driving spikes and laying track his whole life, he was the definition of tough and he didn't bitch or complain about his life. His younger kids and the older grandkids picked coal of the tracks to help heat the house, what the trains hit went into the sauce pot to feed the kids. He just worked and made the best of it, I"m here because of his toughness and commitment to busting his ass, I'd like to think that even in my worst times I didn't have it like he did so I just shut my mouth and worry about making it through whatever hard spot it is I am in at the time. I found one of his old paychecks in my Grandfather's desk years ago, at the end of his days on the railroad (1970) his pay check was $2.35 a week and he raised 12 kids on that amount.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY8123 View Post
    Minimum wage was $4.25 when I started washing dishes, well actually $3.80. Minimum wage went up about 2 bucks between 1978 ($2.65) until 1996 ($4.75) over an 18 year span, from 1996 until now ($7.25) it has gone up $2.50 in 17 years with it more than likely to go up again soon. 3% a year roughly and that is what they say the cost of living adjustment is for any standard job per year based on corporate averages in the US (it is a bull**** number but none the less it is the number).

    What people forgot is spending power is "your" power, yeah you need basic items to live, food, heat etc...but there are a ton of other things you don't need, Xbox, Internet, Digital Cable, data plans, unlimited texting, coach bags, Air Jordan's, etc...you want those things you don't need them.

    I know people who don't have a pot to piss in that have an xbox blazing away over the Internet, they don't have gas to get to work but somehow find a way to pay $60 to $80 a month for Internet. In the case of an immigrant from Haiti or a person who is "special", I agree they are busting their ass and doing the best they can, sometimes life deals a ****y hand, it is up to you what you do with it.

    My great-grandfather came on a boat from Italy with no education and spoke almost zero English. He had 12 kids and worked on the railroad driving spikes and laying track his whole life, he was the definition of tough and he didn't bitch or complain about his life. His younger kids and the older grandkids picked coal of the tracks to help heat the house, what the trains hit went into the sauce pot to feed the kids. He just worked and made the best of it, I"m here because of his toughness and commitment to busting his ass, I'd like to think that even in my worst times I didn't have it like he did so I just shut my mouth and worry about making it through whatever hard spot it is I am in at the time. I found one of his old paychecks in my Grandfather's desk years ago, at the end of his days on the railroad (1970) his pay check was $2.35 a week and he raised 12 kids on that amount.
    I dont doubt that your GGF endured tough times and whatnot, but a few things:

    1. I dont care how frugal he was or what he was doing, its impossible for him to support 12 kids on the equivalent of $14.12 a week. No way.

    2. Times probably were tougher then, but shouldnt we be aiming for better as a society? Minimum wage itself has been bumped other times in the past. Why not raise it to meet the same civilized standard of living it was set to years ago? Minimum wage buying power is regressing. We shouldnt want to trend that direction as a society.

    3. Yeah, Im sure you know people who are idiots with money. Everyone does. But Id imagine the number of people who are just trying to pay their way through school, keep afloat after school/a layoff, handicapped in some way, ect. outnumber the lazy, wasteful people.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tylerdolphin View Post
    I dont doubt that your GGF endured tough times and whatnot, but a few things:

    1. I dont care how frugal he was or what he was doing, its impossible for him to support 12 kids on the equivalent of $14.12 a week. No way.
    I heard straight from my grandmother's mouth before she died that she and my grandfather raised eight kids on $13.00 a week. They were great hunters and very frugal. Few people in the US today have any idea what real struggle is. The entitlement is nauseating. With that being said, minimum wage should adjust automatically every year with the CPI. That would kill this argument.


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    I think everybody has a father or grandfather or great grandfather who struggled their ass off to make things better for their family and endured more than any of us could endure. My mother's father grew up one of nine kids, the son of a drunken farmer. He left home at 15 to escape getting the **** kicked out him and then had his right arm paralyzed in an auto accident where everyone else died. He recovered, got himself educated, and was running a factory and several businesses in Cuba when Castro took power and took away everything he had. He escaped jail and execution working in the underground and then moved his family to the US, where he drove a truck with one arm and worked in microfiche to send his daughters to college.

    Nevertheless, I am liberal, and I think we need a higher minimum wage.

    I think all this 'my grandfather endured this" and "my dad never asked for that" is just passing the buck for not politicizing your empathy (or for having no empathy). Well, I bet the grandpas in this thread never passed the buck. So don't do it yourself. You think a minimum wage is bad economics (meaning, you're not a Keynesian), then say so. You think it would raise prices, then say so. You think people who don't make much money don't deserve to make any more money, then say so.


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    Quote Originally Posted by phins_4_ever View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by tylerdolphin View Post
    I dont doubt that your GGF endured tough times and whatnot, but a few things:

    1. I dont care how frugal he was or what he was doing, its impossible for him to support 12 kids on the equivalent of $14.12 a week. No way.

    2. Times probably were tougher then, but shouldnt we be aiming for better as a society? Minimum wage itself has been bumped other times in the past. Why not raise it to meet the same civilized standard of living it was set to years ago? Minimum wage buying power is regressing. We shouldnt want to trend that direction as a society.

    3. Yeah, Im sure you know people who are idiots with money. Everyone does. But Id imagine the number of people who are just trying to pay their way through school, keep afloat after school/a layoff, handicapped in some way, ect. outnumber the lazy, wasteful people.
    Sorry boys that was a mistype there., $2.35 an hour, which at the time was better than minimum wage but not much. I had meant to convert that to his weekly wage which would have been $94 assuming he worked 40 hours which he did not, he worked overtime.
    Last edited by NY8123; 01-13-2014 at 05:41 PM.
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  9. -49
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    People seem to forget that raising min wage to $11 an hour or even $15 an hour like these protesters want, will have an effect on the ENTIRE wage scale. If she's making 7.25 an hour, then her managers probably make around 11 to 12 an hour.

    So what happens when you pay her manager wages?? What do the managers make now??

    This is why I feel these decisions should be made at the local and state levels because a one size fits all approach to this would have negatives results no matter how you spin it. Fast food joints and other places will only fast track things like automated tellers and automated cooking. Or reduce workers and increase work loads.

    Wal-mart already short changes us on cashiers. Every time I go there they never have enough registers open. Imagine when you increase their wages to 11 or 15 an hour. What would happen?

    I agree working a low paying dead end job really sucks. I worked plenty of them in my life. I worked graveyard stock crew at Winn Dixie for $5.50 and hour. Cleaned pools in the hot summer for $8 an hour. Worked at Disney, which wasn't bad but only made $8.50 an hour. My first ever job was a bag boy a Publix for 3.80 an hour. All these jobs paid crap and were never intended to pay for everything I need. They were low skilled jobs that were a dime a dozen and always have a high turnover rate. Still to this day and forever.

    Eventually I learned a couple of trades, drywall, framing and painting. Got a job through a friend. And once I became quite good at it my pay scale increased dramatically because I was no longer a low-skilled worker. I have skills to pay the bills now. That eventually lead to supervisor and manager work.

    Back in 2007-2008 when the economy took a dump I got laid off and so did my wife 3 months later. Both of us lost our good paying jobs and were forced to take whatever we could at low wage scales. I delivered pizzas for Pizza Hut and she got a part-time job working as a birth assistant at a birth center. Together we were lucky if we brought home $500 a week. Even at that moment I ALWAYS had the goal of making things better no matter what, and this was only temporary. I kept looking for work and applying to everything under the sun.

    Eventually after much determination and never giving up I landed a supervisor job. A few years later I'm a manger of all the supervisors at my job. Now I just incorporated and got my LLC and I'm starting my own business while working my current job too. Everything turned out far better than 5 years ago when I was delivering freaking pizzas.

    As for my wife. 5 years later she's now the office manager of that birth center.

    Point is keep your chin up and create the opportunity. MAKE YOUR OWN LUCK!! Nothing is ever handed to you unless you're Paris Hilton , JP Morgan or North West (that dumb ****in name) Don't look to the government or min wage to better your life. Only you have the power to do that.





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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWalrus View Post
    I think everybody has a father or grandfather or great grandfather who struggled their ass off to make things better for their family and endured more than any of us could endure. My mother's father grew up one of nine kids, the son of a drunken farmer. He left home at 15 to escape getting the **** kicked out him and then had his right arm paralyzed in an auto accident where everyone else died. He recovered, got himself educated, and was running a factory and several businesses in Cuba when Castro took power and took away everything he had. He escaped jail and execution working in the underground and then moved his family to the US, where he drove a truck with one arm and worked in microfiche to send his daughters to college.

    Nevertheless, I am liberal, and I think we need a higher minimum wage.

    I think all this 'my grandfather endured this" and "my dad never asked for that" is just passing the buck for not politicizing your empathy (or for having no empathy). Well, I bet the grandpas in this thread never passed the buck. So don't do it yourself. You think a minimum wage is bad economics (meaning, you're not a Keynesian), then say so. You think it would raise prices, then say so. You think people who don't make much money don't deserve to make any more money, then say so.
    Hell, I'm conservative and think we need a higher minimum wage but think it's ludicrous to raise it nearly 52% (to $11) as some are advocating. It won't have a huge effect where the cost of living is already high but will kill rural America and areas with low cost of living. I think raising it to $8.00 is reasonable with a 3% annual increase built in or have it track the CPI. That, to me, is reasonable.

    I did some quick research and it appears the minimum wage was established in 1938 at $.25. If that is correct, it has risen approximately 4.5% a year over the past 75 years, which is pretty good. It has risen about 3% a year from 1978 when all jobs were consolidated and farming jobs were not separated out. Additionally, it has risen just under 3% since 2008 which was the last level before the current $7.25. It really isn't that far off and egregiously behind inflation.

    http://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/chart.htm

    According to the US inflation calculator, an item costing $.25 in 1938 would cost $4.13 now so people on minimum wage have nearly double the purchasing power today. However, an item that cost $2.65 in 1978 would cost $9.47 today. They had a lot more movement in the minimum wage before 1978 but it has slowed in most of our lifetimes. A small correction is needed but a huge one is totally unwarranted.

    http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/



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