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Thread: Breakdown of Wisconsin LB Chris Borland (Senior Bowl, career tape and other notes)

  1. -11
    hooshoops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fin Thirteen View Post
    The kid is tiny. If you want to take a chance that his size won't limit his effectiveness in the NFL, then I put it to you that a second rounder is a very high price to find out. Especially with a talent like Smallwood in the second and guys like Lamin Barrow and Shayne Skov in the mix a little further down.

    I value instinct more than just about anything at LB, but you have to be prepared to accept the ramifications of having a super-instinctual player arrive at the right place and the right time, and be unable to physically prevent his target from gaining yards. At it's most basic level, Borland has to ankle tackle most RBs, TEs and receivers to be sure of taking them down. Watch the tape. He often starts by wrapping up high and then slips down to take the legs. As human beings are about 2 yards high, every tackle he makes surrenders close to 2 yards more than a LB who can stop a runner in his tracks. That's why RBs who always fall forward have better stats than those who don't. Falling forward with Borland around your ankles isn't hard. Falling forward with Karlos Dansby in your grille is hard.

    In many cases, he just won't stop a guy at all, even if he diagnosed the play perfectly. I'm not even bringing up his very short arms at this point, which instantly limits his range in a big way.

    I might be prepared to live with that on my roster, but not with a second or even third round pick.

    PS I also rate Wisconsin very highly as a producer of NFL-grade talent. The buyer beware is that some players have reached close to their max under the Badgers programme.
    i tend to agree with this...the instincts though are quite high...barrow of lsu is someone that has caught my eye but not as instinctual i think the kirkley kid for iowa is another solid lb and i like his teammate morris instincts even if i dont know much about his range

    we could do worse than borland with a 2nd rounder god knows we have done much worse but for me that size bothers me and he is a dive and ankles tackler a lot...he will struggle at the poa unless he can work his way thru trash and find the football clean etc...i don't know tough kid to evaluate...and i think in coverage there will be come issues...looks like mike only to me...might be more inclined if i felt he could hold up in coverage at weak but i dont

    i'd probably be more inclined on a 3rd rounder there...don't think i'd pull the trigger in the 2nd...gonna be a lot of people either way wrong on this or way right i see no in between here

    kid finds the football though...no doubt about it...plays very smart...even if it is in a small package
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    Lavonte David's knock coming out was he was a bit undersized and he's 2 inches taller than Borland with a frame to put more weight on. David's arms were inches longer. David had the resume and the instincts too and he went in the late second, was it? (BTW, Hickey/Dominik traded up to get him, they liked him so much - Ireland trades up for Daniel Thomas and Will Davis). Khaseem Greene got taken in the fourth last year. Michael Mauti got taken in the 7th. Did Chase Thomas even get drafted? I don't think so, iirc.

    Yawin Smallwood is twice the LB that Borland will be in the pros, and he's there in the second this year.

    What I don't get is why you would take the risk at that level? This guy will fall in the draft and someone will get a value pick in the 4th or 5th at the earliest, is my guess.
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    hooshoops's Avatar
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    lavonte david was a weakside olb though prospect you could get away with that size more there than on the mike in todays nfl...borlands a tough call that's all i know...he reads keys well and has a feel for whats coming and he finds the football...the point about guys always falling forward is one i agree with

    khaseem green if you saw him this year showed zero instincts was lost...just terrible...

    i dont know...what i do know is instincts at lb are a must...
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    I'm just making the point that there's no need to take a physically limited LB in the second when the draft tells you these guys will always fall.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fin Thirteen View Post
    I'm just making the point that there's no need to take a physically limited LB in the second when the draft tells you these guys will always fall.
    i think that's probably right but fall out of the 3rd round i doubt it...again though tough call...only takes one team
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    I will admit that Borland may not be the best fit for the 4-3.. His athleticism will get exposed a lot more there with him handling more coverage duties. I still think he'll be a good player, but it may not be for the phins current system.

    Smallwood is a great find though, and if here's there for us at #50 I'd be calling for him. Hopefully we can be active with OL in free agency, so we can spend fewer draft picks on it (we have to use at least two though, no doubt).. Would allow us to pick up very good LB and RB in the earlier rounds.
    Last edited by JakeMcAwful; 01-28-2014 at 03:07 PM.
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    Fin Thirteen's Avatar
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    Let me offer you a Chris Borland clone you can have in the final rounds or UDFA. Jake Doughty of Utah St. Similar build, 6ft and 235 or something, the guy is a machine. 148 tackles, 45 solo, 2 PDs, 2 sacks 1 Int.

    Part of one of the top 3 run stopping defenses in the NCAA. Only 2 teams got over 100yds rushing all year. Doughty was a huge part of that.

    This kid may not even get taken in the 7th, as there is zero buzz about him.

    This is from last season against LA Tech. Doughty is #51, playing mostly Mike.
    Last edited by Fin Thirteen; 01-30-2014 at 01:17 PM.
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    I see the positives in Borland but I would not make the selection until round 3 at the earliest. Off the charts instincts but limited physically

    ---------- Post added at 11:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:13 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Fin Thirteen View Post
    Let me offer you a Chris Borland clone you can have in the final rounds or UDFA. Jake Doughty of Utah St. Similar build, 6ft and 235 or something, the guy is a machine. 148 tackles, 45 solo, 2 PDs, 2 sacks 1 Int.

    Part of one of the top 3 run stopping defenses in the NCAA. Only 2 teams got over 100yds rushing all year. Doughty was a huge part of that.

    This kid may not even get taken in the 7th, as there is zero buzz about him.
    I've seen some of his game and I have no doubt we have his scouted. We have too many western scouts not to have the kid in our sights if they think he fits our d. Good find though.
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    I would love to see Borland in a Fins uniform.

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    I like him. I'm not sure about how high we need to draft a MLB, and given the decent production and high salary we paid Ellerbe, I doubt we draft an MLB in rounds 2-3. For the Dolphins, this draft needs to be about the OL. But, he does have that Zach Thomas, Sam Mills makeup. He is a guy who is a solid thumper in a small package that makes up for lack of size and length with extremely good instincts. As a prospect, I could see him being one of those surprisingly good guys who is drafted lower than he should because of position (MLB/ILB are historically drafted low) and lack of measurables. It worked out OK for Seattle drafting Bobby Wilson though.
    "I want guys who want to make an impact on and off the field. Good human beings. Guys who want to get better. Guys who want to improve. They want to be great, want to win. Those types of guys we can work with every day." --Joe Philbin
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