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Thread: I am coming out of the closet.... this is hard to do but....

  1. -41
    rev kev's Avatar
    ihaveprettyfeet

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaark View Post
    We're all sinners to some extent Kev.. but our divide here is that you believe sin is determined by biblical edicts and tenets while I believe it's derived from an innate instinct and resulting self-governor that a non hands-on Supreme Being/Grand Designor hard wired into us as part of the architectural blueprint. Don't need no one to tell me what's a sin thank you (especially if they're hypocritcal about it themselves!) Have you noticed that the more stridently vociferous and inflexible the sin sermonizer is, the more likely they turn out to be hypocrites themselves and in reality trying to shame themselves or seek salvation by rationalizing that while they can't save themselves, maybe their redemption lies in saving others ??? Ya know, I've given a lot of thought over many years to all of this but don't really wanna get too much beyond the periphery here of my own observations and beliefs; that periphery being that while I certainly do respect those who consistently live by their faith based beliefs, I personally reject them and resent anyone trying to foist them on me spiritually or legally.

    I think I hear ya correctly - Cain knew that he had committed sin when he killed his brother Abel ~ there wasn't any written revelation at the time. (Genesis 4)

    But for me the narrative doesn't end there, while I believe we have an inner blueprint, I really do, God was also merciful to give his people the "Law of Moses" that they a sinful people could come into contact with "Holy" - and His people still dropped the ball, thinking they could be "holy" and stand in His presence by sacrificing helpless animals or by eatting and cleaning themselves correctly.

    Now, I also know that Christianity in the USA is also a lot more "political" than here in Canada and that has turned more than one stomach both on the outside looking in but alos on the inside looking into Christianity. I have done some of my own research into Deism, and while I cannot disagree that there is a blue print or more, I cannot fathom a rational for why there isn't any "revelation" from this creator ~

    If some "Law" wasn't written down we would have what we read in the "The Lord of the Flies" - accept there would be no rescue -> Piggy's out there would all be dead -> because they are dying anyway with the blueprint and the revalation

    But I won't be the guy confused with having blinders on either. I see the inflexibity of Christiniaty, I talk to people, and that is why I always return to Jesus and what Jesus had to say over anyone's cherry-picked story or account. Yes it gets me in trouble, as did coming out of the closet.


    Originally Posted by SkapePhin - Here is one thing I will guarantee... When all is said and done, Jeff Ireland will be viewed as a better Dolphins GM than Dennis Hickey. Take that to the bank. Buckle up folks! (26/01/2014)







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  2. -42
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    Quote Originally Posted by rev kev View Post
    God was also merciful to give his people the "Law of Moses" that they a sinful people could come into contact with "Holy" - and His people still dropped the ball...
    You have to understand that when language like that is used, and Christians say that God chooses to be "merciful," what runs in the back of people's minds is that on the flip side, it means God could have easily NOT been merciful. Meaning, we could simply be unlucky. That's where fear comes in. Not only is fear not good for our personal growth, but if everyone around you is also being controlled through fear, then they're not going to have your back if you step out of line, they're going to try to go along with the group.

    That's why a lot of people in the Western world have moved away from organized religion, because it's about laws and rules someone wrote down, (no matter how lofty), and it involves a self-appointed human hierarchy. An educated person in the West can follow everything to the letter, and still feel a lack of spirituality. For me, personally, I don't feel God punishes in any way, shape or form. He's genderless, and formless, and emotionless. He has no memory, no history, as past is present is future. What ever is left of me, of my spiritual essence, which existed prior to my birth, will return back to wherever it originated. It won't matter what laws I followed or didn't follow, and whether I was a jew, gentile, deist or atheist. Because these religions depend on either our birth, geographical location, or our environment, and we don't have choice or control over any of that.

    If some "Law" wasn't written down we would have what we read in the "The Lord of the Flies" -accept there would be no rescue -> Piggy's out there would all be dead -> because they are dying anyway with the blueprint and the revalation
    You're pointing to the real reason organized religion exists. It's uncomfortable for many people to imagine life without religion, for various reasons. If you're a woman, you may feel religions keep criminals in check. If you're a man, you may feel it instills much needed discipline, keeps your kids from talking back to you, and is an important institution for civilization. If you're closeted, you may feel it's a refuge. If you're Southern, it's part of your culture. If you're black, it's part of your music and political platform. And I can go on and on....with our religion as well as other religions around the globe, and none of it has to do with salvation.

    As far as the "Piggy's"...that's sociology. It's up to us to evolve to the point where we recognize the value and individuality and worth of every person. To maintain concepts of fairness, and tolerance, and egality, and teach it to every generation. Religion is not going to teach us that. Religion teaches concepts of sameness, of group-think, and familiarity. Within religion we are also shown hierarchy, and power structure. That is why it marries so well with nationalism and dictatorship, because when folks are already used to obeying religious leaders, they will do the same thing with political leaders.

    I've always felt that religion lost it's golden opportunity, to be the exact opposite of all that. To not be about obeying, and to not be about hierarchy, and not about money, or land, or culture. If religion simply filled in the missing void - how to be free of fear, and how to forgive others and ourselves, would be a great thing. We are afraid, for example, to let Mike Sam in a locker room. We are afraid without religious structure the criminals will run wild. We are afraid that if we close churches, they will re-open as mosques. We are afraid of terrorists, so we allow ourselves to be lorded over. If we conquered our fears, think of what we could accomplish! And what if religion actually taught us how to do that?


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  3. -43
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    HoneyB - I think it is blind naivete that if we didn't have armies, laws, and fences that people wouldn't attempt to take advantage - that said the laws aren't enough and religion and rule keeping has completely failed us the opposite of love - you are quite right is not "hate" but fear

    ---------- Post added at 03:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:07 PM ----------

    -40 here today lovely BTW :/
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