Welcome to FinHeaven Fans Forums! We're glad to have you here. Please feel free to browse the forum. We'd like to invite you to join our community; doing so will enable you to view additional forums and post with our other members.



VIP Members don't see these ads. Join VIP Now
Page 4 of 9 FirstFirst 12345678 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 89

Thread: I am coming out of the closet.... this is hard to do but....

  1. -31
    rev kev's Avatar
    ihaveprettyfeet

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Mar 2004
    Posts:
    7,995
    vCash:
    8868
    Loc:
    Calgary Alberta
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaark View Post
    Kev, I say in full sincerity as my long time bud here, I know you to be not only a good guy but also a non-judgmental one. Unlike the "do as I say, not as I do'ers" you actually are out in the street helping people in need so there's props for that too.

    I also appreciate your recurring reassurance that as a "heathen" I'm not doomed to an eternity of damnation (hope you're right.). So as a friend whose business is religion I do worry about you inadvertently violating some Biblical prohibitions. I know you're happily married to a beautiful woman and have a great son, so that's not the one I fear you may violate. Leviticus 11:14, please please please, don't ever get drunk and end up eating a camel, rabbit or pig; Leviticus 11:10 - next time in Vegas, please resist the temptation of those 99cent shrimp platters; Leviticus 3:17 (fat) I interpret to mean either don't be tempted by high fat foods like ice cream and bacon and/or better keep yourself slim cause it's a biblical mandate; Leviticus 19:27: if you're thinking of "rounding your head" for all that is holy, please DON'T!!! Swear off barbers immediately. Nothing wrong with that Forrest Gump look I know you love God probably more than football but please don't go postal on our football players because they're commanded not to work on Sundays (now the Patriots? That's an other story _)

    These are just the tip of the iceberg... It's a Biblical minefield out there and I appreciate you and your common-sense posts too much not to worry about unintentional missteps. So like the old Sgt used to say on Hill Street Blues "Be careful out there, it's a jungle"

    Your buddy Vaark
    Excellent post Vk

    I am not too worried about bacon nor these Levitical Laws -> and I work on Sundays too -> so I have broken my fair share of laws

    What folks who have not studied the Old and New Testaments faiil to mention re: Jesus and the Levitical Laws or Laws of Moses or Mocaic Laws
    Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets; I came not to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished” Mt. 5:17-18.

    Jesus did not destroy the Levitical Laws but he did not say we had to honour everyone of them either - the word “destroy.” It translates the Greek term kataluo, literally meaning to “loose down.” The term can carry the extended meaning of “to overthrow,” i.e., to “render vain, deprive of success.” In classical Greek, it was used in connection with institutions, laws, etc., to convey the idea of “to deprive of force” or to “invalidate.”

    https://www.christiancourier.com/art...e-law-of-moses


    The law and the prophets are synonymous terms for "all the Scriptures" (Luke 24:27).


    God told Saint Peter that foods that were once unclean are now clean -> the very foods that Peter thought were unsanctified, God said were sanctified.


    Acts 10:9-15
    About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”

    “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.” The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

    I could go on for pages explaining the differnce between Civil, Ceremonial and Moral Laws. Suffice it to say that... we have to understand that God's people Israel missed the "spirit" of why God gave them the Laws of Moses -> they lived a life of check marks on checklists. this is not freedom and this is not liberty.

    Yet Yet Yet the moral demands of Moses' law are no more or less stringent than, and in no way fundamentally different from, the New Testament ethic of love. Jesus simply amplifies the moral content of the OT law, but it does not abrogate or change any of it.

    The sermon on the mount is a good example Matt 5 of what God wants us to focus our attention on.

    Again I will stress that God cares more about our relationship with him, than eatiing bacon or working on Sunday. When it comes to morals, , morals still take a back seat to "knowing God" which in part is one's faith put in action.




    Quote Quote  

  2. -32
    rev kev's Avatar
    ihaveprettyfeet

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Mar 2004
    Posts:
    7,995
    vCash:
    8868
    Loc:
    Calgary Alberta
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaark View Post
    Kev, I say in full sincerity as my long time bud here, I know you to be not only a good guy but also a non-judgmental one. Unlike the "do as I say, not as I do'ers" you actually are out in the street helping people in need so there's props for that too.

    I also appreciate your recurring reassurance that as a "heathen" I'm not doomed to an eternity of damnation (hope you're right.). So as a friend whose business is religion I do worry about you inadvertently violating some Biblical prohibitions. I know you're happily married to a beautiful woman and have a great son, so that's not the one I fear you may violate. Leviticus 11:14, please please please, don't ever get drunk and end up eating a camel, rabbit or pig; Leviticus 11:10 - next time in Vegas, please resist the temptation of those 99cent shrimp platters; Leviticus 3:17 (fat) I interpret to mean either don't be tempted by high fat foods like ice cream and bacon and/or better keep yourself slim cause it's a biblical mandate; Leviticus 19:27: if you're thinking of "rounding your head" for all that is holy, please DON'T!!! Swear off barbers immediately. Nothing wrong with that Forrest Gump look I know you love God probably more than football but please don't go postal on our football players because they're commanded not to work on Sundays (now the Patriots? That's an other story _)

    These are just the tip of the iceberg... It's a Biblical minefield out there and I appreciate you and your common-sense posts too much not to worry about unintentional missteps. So like the old Sgt used to say on Hill Street Blues "Be careful out there, it's a jungle"

    Your buddy Vaark
    I also appreciate your recurring reassurance that as a "heathen" I'm not doomed to an eternity of damnation (hope you're right.).


    This is my stance -> to be clear there is hope -> God would prefer you choose him now, that said...

    If you don't want to be with God in the next resurrection you won't have to, God won't force you or make you. I don't believe the Greek view of Hell is true. I can't see God creating a second room to forever torture souls for stealing bread to feed their famililes. Yes we are all sinful, we need a Saviour, all roads do not lead to God. I also do not believe that the soul is eternal like the Greeks did - therefore those who don't want to be with God can choose to be annilated. It sounds horrible it sounds cold and that is what death is cold - 6 feet under in most circumstances.

    I take 1 Corinthians 15 very seriously on the matter of resurrection and what the resurrection body looks like - each star will differ in "glory" as star differs from star in splendor" I believe the bible teaches forwards and back that there are rewards to a life well lived. How those rewards shape up no one knows for sure but God who can count our sleepless nights and our tears can keep track of our fiathfulness and lack therof of faithfulness. The people who are most accountable are the ones with the abililty and influence to make a difference. People like me - So in otherwords "I am the First who shall be last" - I sense a lot of other very worthy people will be ahead of me

    I think the newborn aborted baby, the child born with aids, the child born in such extreme poverty that their parents would sell their child's bodies for money, I think their is hope in God in the next life -> and these the "poorest" of folks are also our spiritual mentors.

    Yes -> for this I will likley be labeled a heretic - LOL - but not too long ago I would have burned at the stake, tied to a big stick

    Quote Quote  

  3. -33
    HoneyB's Avatar
    Pro Bowler

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Sep 2013
    Posts:
    1,501
    vCash:
    8329
    Loc:
    Broward County, Florida
    Thanks / No Thanks
    1972 Dolphins Logo1972 Dolphins LogoDolphin
    Quote Originally Posted by rev kev View Post
    Excellent post Vk

    I am not too worried about bacon nor these Levitical Laws -> and I work on Sundays too -> so I have broken my fair share of laws

    What folks who have not studied the Old and New Testaments faiil to mention re: Jesus and the Levitical Laws or Laws of Moses or Mocaic Laws
    Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets; I came not to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished” Mt. 5:17-18.

    Jesus did not destroy the Levitical Laws but he did not say we had to honour everyone of them either - the word “destroy.” It translates the Greek term kataluo, literally meaning to “loose down.” The term can carry the extended meaning of “to overthrow,” i.e., to “render vain, deprive of success.” In classical Greek, it was used in connection with institutions, laws, etc., to convey the idea of “to deprive of force” or to “invalidate.”

    https://www.christiancourier.com/art...e-law-of-moses


    The law and the prophets are synonymous terms for "all the Scriptures" (Luke 24:27).


    God told Saint Peter that foods that were once unclean are now clean -> the very foods that Peter thought were unsanctified, God said were sanctified.


    Acts 10:9-15
    About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”

    “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.” The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

    I could go on for pages explaining the differnce between Civil, Ceremonial and Moral Laws. Suffice it to say that... we have to understand that God's people Israel missed the "spirit" of why God gave them the Laws of Moses -> they lived a life of check marks on checklists. this is not freedom and this is not liberty.

    Yet Yet Yet the moral demands of Moses' law are no more or less stringent than, and in no way fundamentally different from, the New Testament ethic of love. Jesus simply amplifies the moral content of the OT law, but it does not abrogate or change any of it.

    The sermon on the mount is a good example Matt 5 of what God wants us to focus our attention on.

    Again I will stress that God cares more about our relationship with him, than eatiing bacon or working on Sunday. When it comes to morals, , morals still take a back seat to "knowing God" which in part is one's faith put in action.




    That part about Jesus not coming to destroy the old laws, is often quoted by hard-liners as proof that you cannot discard anything in the bible, which includes the old testament. Yes, perhaps there is that part by Peter, but there is more than one interpretation of that. And actually, Jesus followed the dietary habits of jews, there's no evidence he ate any unclean animal.

    Clearly, as the concept of Christianity spread, it became more inclusive, the dietary restrictions were loosened quite a bit, although we're still supposed to abide by certain guidelines. It became a matter of practicality.

    The reason, btw, Leviticus is often brought up, is because some Christians do focus on specific passages in Leviticus, which you are well aware of, which are the basis of discrimination.


    Quote Quote  

  4. -34
    rev kev's Avatar
    ihaveprettyfeet

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Mar 2004
    Posts:
    7,995
    vCash:
    8868
    Loc:
    Calgary Alberta
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by HoneyB View Post
    That part about Jesus not coming to destroy the old laws, is often quoted by hard-liners as proof that you cannot discard anything in the bible, which includes the old testament. Yes, perhaps there is that part by Peter, but there is more than one interpretation of that. And actually, Jesus followed the dietary habits of jews, there's no evidence he ate any unclean animal.

    Clearly, as the concept of Christianity spread, it became more inclusive, the dietary restrictions were loosened quite a bit, although we're still supposed to abide by certain guidelines. It became a matter of practicality.

    The reason, btw, Leviticus is often brought up, is because some Christians do focus on specific passages in Leviticus, which you are well aware of, which are the basis of discrimination.
    True Bro

    There is no evidence he didn't follow dietary laws, but he certainly Defiled himself with Lepers (Ceremonially Laws)- and the Mosiac Law helped police a people who had little by ways of formal government and police force - the eye for an eye tooth for tooth laws prevented overkill of "justice" -> and Jesus absolutley throws the Jewish nation into hysteria when he call for them turn the other cheek.

    Something that David began doing "turn the other cheek" prior to taking the throne (Saul) but also somthing he began to do as King. He tried to show grace on occasion
    Quote Quote  

  5. -35
    HoneyB's Avatar
    Pro Bowler

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Sep 2013
    Posts:
    1,501
    vCash:
    8329
    Loc:
    Broward County, Florida
    Thanks / No Thanks
    1972 Dolphins Logo1972 Dolphins LogoDolphin
    Quote Originally Posted by rev kev View Post
    True Bro

    There is no evidence he didn't follow dietary laws, but he certainly Defiled himself with Lepers (Ceremonially Laws)- and the Mosiac Law helped police a people who had little by ways of formal government and police force - the eye for an eye tooth for tooth laws prevented overkill of "justice" -> and Jesus absolutley throws the Jewish nation into hysteria when he call for them turn the other cheek.

    Something that David began doing "turn the other cheek" prior to taking the throne (Saul) but also somthing he began to do as King. He tried to show grace on occasion
    Going against tradition is never an easy road.
    Quote Quote  

  6. -36
    rev kev's Avatar
    ihaveprettyfeet

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Mar 2004
    Posts:
    7,995
    vCash:
    8868
    Loc:
    Calgary Alberta
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by HoneyB View Post
    Going against tradition is never an easy road.
    Nope

    And while people may choose to take a different approach to Peter on the roof with the unclean animals it will be hard for them to argue that Cornelius wasn't a Jew and that God wasn't preparing Peter for Corneilius arrival to his home, Peter was about to have close interactions with this Gentile. Acts 10
    Last edited by rev kev; 02-21-2014 at 12:16 PM.
    Quote Quote  

  7. -37
    Vaark's Avatar
    InRegioneCaecorum RexEstLusces

    Status:
    Online
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Apr 2007
    Posts:
    19,973
    vCash:
    13006
    Loc:
    Zombieland (lookn4 Myles)
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Yo Kev, thanx for taking the time on an insightful and passionate response. We just don't see eye to eye but i respect people who actually live by the credo of their faith.. and know a couple whose newfound faith has actually uplifted them from bad lives. However, as you know from the past, I was brought up exposed to 2 religions with devout practitioners on both sides. However when I read Rousseau and Voltaire in college philosophy, their ideas of evolution, non-judgmental spirituality and being captain of ones own fate while acknowledging the world couldn't interact, fit, interlock as precisely without a grand plan by a Supreme Grand Architect made eminent sense to me. I knew I wasn't an atheist, likely not an agnostic but finally I found a home as a Deist. One of my hot buttons is hypocrisy like all the louts on their shaky soapboxes on BSPN, as well as the dysfunctional network itself, putting out a desired spin. Not unlike MSNBC or Fox (which actually sued about 11 years ago for the right to falsify news as they saw fit), I have a problem with organized religionists who hypocritically preach one thing and do another. They have no right to foist their beliefs on me personally or legally, nor to sit in judgement of me. It's largely the judgmental and divisive nature of "true believers" of whatever religion as well as my empiricism and logic orientation that long ago made me tune out. So my question to you as a proud heathen is if I actually do acknowledge a hands-off Supreme Being, live my life ethically the way I believe that entity hard-wired me naturally to do so, if there actually is a heaven (and I don't believe so but have lost some dear dear people who died too soon so I hope I'm wrong), why wouldn't I be welcomed in? Or do I have to believe in your vision to be welcomed into your heaven? And what about if I'm right.. do you think you'd be welcomed into a non-sectarian afterlife created by my vision of a Divine Power?

    Inquiring minds want to know, eh? (threw in the Canaspeak cuz I sure hear it enough to sound natural)


    Dear Math, please grow up and solve your own problems, I'm tired of solving them for you. -Anon



    Quote Quote  

  8. -38
    rev kev's Avatar
    ihaveprettyfeet

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Mar 2004
    Posts:
    7,995
    vCash:
    8868
    Loc:
    Calgary Alberta
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaark View Post
    Yo Kev, thanx for taking the time on an insightful and passionate response. We just don't see eye to eye but i respect people who actually live by the credo of their faith.. and know a couple whose newfound faith has actually uplifted them from bad lives. However, as you know from the past, I was brought up exposed to 2 religions with devout practitioners on both sides. However when I read Rousseau and Voltaire in college philosophy, their ideas of evolution, non-judgmental spirituality and being captain of ones own fate while acknowledging the world couldn't interact, fit, interlock as precisely without a grand plan by a Supreme Grand Architect made eminent sense to me. I knew I wasn't an atheist, likely not an agnostic but finally I found a home as a Deist. One of my hot buttons is hypocrisy like all the louts on their shaky soapboxes on BSPN, as well as the dysfunctional network itself, putting out a desired spin. Not unlike MSNBC or Fox (which actually sued about 11 years ago for the right to falsify news as they saw fit), I have a problem with organized religionists who hypocritically preach one thing and do another. They have no right to foist their beliefs on me personally or legally, nor to sit in judgement of me. It's largely the judgmental and divisive nature of "true believers" of whatever religion as well as my empiricism and logic orientation that long ago made me tune out. So my question to you as a proud heathen is if I actually do acknowledge a hands-off Supreme Being, live my life ethically the way I believe that entity hard-wired me naturally to do so, if there actually is a heaven (and I don't believe so but have lost some dear dear people who died too soon so I hope I'm wrong), why wouldn't I be welcomed in? Or do I have to believe in your vision to be welcomed into your heaven? And what about if I'm right.. do you think you'd be welcomed into a non-sectarian afterlife created by my vision of a Divine Power?

    Inquiring minds want to know, eh? (threw in the Canaspeak cuz I sure hear it enough to sound natural)
    Again excellent points - but yes I am a hypocrite and I am not happy about it - I knew a bit of your past and respect that you are a deist. I disagree, I see the argument and reject it 100%.

    Hypocrisy that is a sharp one... It cannot solely be owned by Christianity - every faith has hypocrisy - In fact anyone who wears a mask or hides who they really are, could be considered a hypocrite a "charlatan"

    Everyone is trying to look better than "they really are" and I would add that Christians certainly deserve the label. We don't want to admit that we are often defeated by sin, that our behaviour is not always in keping with God's statutes.

    As far as the meaning of the word "hypocrite" it has "evolved" over time into believing, meaning, saying something, and not being able to follow through. In the olden days hypocrisy meant that you said soemthing with no intention of following through.


    That said I hear quite frequently "I don't go to church beacuse I don't want to be a hypocrite!" These folks know I am a minister, I respond, "I go to curch because I am a hypcrite" -> Generally the person is left speechless, you see Vk I cannot live what I preach but it doesn't make it less true just because a "schmuck" like me makes mistakes on a daily basis.

    I much prefer people to see God in me, a schmuck, than people think I am some solid upstanding Christian because I am set up to fail -> people watch and they take note.


    So Vk and my finheaven brethren "I believe" and I cannot follow through -> not an excuse just the simple truth
    Quote Quote  

  9. -39
    rev kev's Avatar
    ihaveprettyfeet

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Mar 2004
    Posts:
    7,995
    vCash:
    8868
    Loc:
    Calgary Alberta
    Thanks / No Thanks
    When I came out of the closet I knew I would eventually have to face my hypocrisy issue so I am just putting it out there - and Vk mkaes a great point

    The purest hearts I know -> are people living off the streets -> many drug addicts, many prostitutes, many people who sell themselves to whomoever, people discarded by their faith groups whether Christian, Muslim, Sikh -> these folks cannot follow through -> but they all aren't hypocrites beacuse they truly believe they just can't stop "drinking" "Shooting" whatever

    And that for me is the difference between the hypocrite and the person who is broken by their sin
    Quote Quote  

  10. -40
    Vaark's Avatar
    InRegioneCaecorum RexEstLusces

    Status:
    Online
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Apr 2007
    Posts:
    19,973
    vCash:
    13006
    Loc:
    Zombieland (lookn4 Myles)
    Thanks / No Thanks
    We're all sinners to some extent Kev.. but our divide here is that you believe sin is determined by biblical edicts and tenets while I believe it's derived from an innate instinct and resulting self-governor that a non hands-on Supreme Being/Grand Designor hard wired into us as part of the architectural blueprint. Don't need no one to tell me what's a sin thank you (especially if they're hypocritcal about it themselves!) Have you noticed that the more stridently vociferous and inflexible the sin sermonizer is, the more likely they turn out to be hypocrites themselves and in reality trying to shame themselves or seek salvation by rationalizing that while they can't save themselves, maybe their redemption lies in saving others ??? Ya know, I've given a lot of thought over many years to all of this but don't really wanna get too much beyond the periphery here of my own observations and beliefs; that periphery being that while I certainly do respect those who consistently live by their faith based beliefs, I personally reject them and resent anyone trying to foist them on me spiritually or legally.


    edit: Oh, while admittedly it's just another day for me here in paradise with the temp outside (where I will soon be off to) right now registering 85.1F/29.5C wishing you and family and happy and fulfilling Sabbath Kev.
    Last edited by Vaark; 02-23-2014 at 12:45 PM.
    Quote Quote  

Similar Threads

  1. Tom Brady came out of the closet???
    By Phinz Up in forum The Depths of the Sea
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-29-2009, 01:57 PM
  2. Closet Dolphins Fan
    By WeVie in forum Miami Dolphins Forum
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 12-25-2008, 12:37 PM
  3. Ricky Martin Defends Coming Out Of Closet
    By BAMAPHIN 22 in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 03-31-2007, 08:51 AM
  4. A lot of Closet fin fans all over !!!!
    By Mr.offerdahl in forum Miami Dolphins Forum
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-17-2005, 01:12 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •