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Thread: Connecticut : Untold Thousands Flout Gun Registration Law

  1. -31
    phinfan3411's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=TheWalrus;1065022426]Not all gun crimes are committed by "criminals".

    And in any case, every country has criminals. Yet countries with aggressive gun control laws have fewer gun homicides and homicides in general. Strange how that works.



    Your statement above, I know you are not stupid, I feel you are purposely trying to mislead, what you are saying is completely false. You do not compare one country to another to prove that gun control works or not, you compare the SAME country before and after various stages of gun control.

    The UK (England and Wales for this scenario) had a murder rate of .8 per 100k in 1910 with virtually no gun control. Over the last 100 years they have administered several different levels of gun control measures that have made it virtually impossible to own a handgun and 100 years later the murder rate is 1.2 per 100k.

    People like you do not like to point that out though, again I feel you are partisan at your core and are agenda driven to carry the water for your side, doesn't matter if the facts back it up or not, your supposed to fall into line on that side, and you do.

    If you want to get own to brass tacks, governments are much more destructive with weapons than civilians any day. I will trust any of my neighbors more with a new ar15 than in the hands of my government that likes to find countries to invade to keep the MIC happy.

    Yep, law abiding gun owners are the enemy here. You will have to trust me a little here, I once saw a study that showed, as a group, licensed gun owners were the most law abiding group of people studied. That study included politicians, policeman, and a few other surprises that I can't remember now, if anyone knows of the study, let me know, because I can't seem to find it now. Yeah, it makes sense, law abiding gun owners are the bad guys...right, no wonder we have no solutions for any of our problems, and we legislate to the highest bidder.
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  2. -32
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    Doesn't matter, pass whatever law you want. Ill have my gun. Im not a mass shooter, i dont carry my Glock outside, it stays home, its for home defense. Cops get guns. Military gets guns. Why shouldn't i have a gun? Not like its an AK or a 240 B or a SAW, its a Glock 22. But i would turn in my weapon, soon as the governments lead the way and disarm, soon as they do that ill hand it in with a smile, but we all know that'll never happen.
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  3. -33
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWalrus View Post
    How many gun fights have you been in exactly? I'm betting none. It's your basic paranoid fantasy... the result of watching Death Wish too many times, probably.

    These kind of shoot 'em up situations don't come up often enough to be statistically relevant. I mean, make a list of the things most likely to end up killing you. Situations where someone pulls a gun and you could have shot back if you only had a gun but didn't is going to be so far down the list it's comical. This is all about how you feel -- the world is so dangerous to you you can't be safe unless you're packing -- rather than anything related to reality. Unfortunately for you to feel safe the gun laws have to be such that a lot of other people get killed.

    What would make me feel safer in this country is not carrying a gun myself. It's other people not carrying a gun. When I was a kid my mother, my brother, my aunt and I were all kidnapped and then robbed at gunpoint (the guy approached us in a mall parking lot and then made us drive him around). Not that I was old enough to carry or even shoot a gun but it would not have mattered one bit if I was. The guy was sitting between my brother and I and my mother and aunt were in the front seat. You think I'm going to pull a gun and starting blasting? Run the percentages. What's most likely to happen there?
    You've missed the point.

    I have the right to defend myself. I think I'll hold on to that right.

    Sticking your head in the sand and saying that you'd feel safer if other people didn't carry a gun, won't stop other people from carrying a gun. If someone does not care about following the law, how exactly is gun control legislation going to stop them? Increased restrictions on firearms only limits law abiding citizens.
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  4. -34
    TheWalrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phinfan3411 View Post
    Your statement above, I know you are not stupid, I feel you are purposely trying to mislead, what you are saying is completely false. You do not compare one country to another to prove that gun control works or not, you compare the SAME country before and after various stages of gun control.

    The UK (England and Wales for this scenario) had a murder rate of .8 per 100k in 1910 with virtually no gun control. Over the last 100 years they have administered several different levels of gun control measures that have made it virtually impossible to own a handgun and 100 years later the murder rate is 1.2 per 100k.
    Here is a link to almost 150 years of homicide rates in the UK. http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/1996...ational-00028/

    If you look at that list and see "gun control not working" then good for you. I see a rate rising and falling linked to many factors. Wars, social unrest, economic factors, population factors (including population density)... it is a complicated issue. The rate, as you'll observe, was on a down trend by 1910 and continued to fall, then went up, then down again, then up.

    If you're going to be so eager to draw causal links between gun control in the UK and their homicide rate, perhaps you'd like to explain these variations to me.

    People like you do not like to point that out though, again I feel you are partisan at your core and are agenda driven to carry the water for your side, doesn't matter if the facts back it up or not, your supposed to fall into line on that side, and you do.

    If you want to get own to brass tacks, governments are much more destructive with weapons than civilians any day. I will trust any of my neighbors more with a new ar15 than in the hands of my government that likes to find countries to invade to keep the MIC happy.
    Look in the mirror, pal.

    Yep, law abiding gun owners are the enemy here. You will have to trust me a little here, I once saw a study that showed, as a group, licensed gun owners were the most law abiding group of people studied. That study included politicians, policeman, and a few other surprises that I can't remember now, if anyone knows of the study, let me know, because I can't seem to find it now. Yeah, it makes sense, law abiding gun owners are the bad guys...right, no wonder we have no solutions for any of our problems, and we legislate to the highest bidder.
    I do not trust you at all.
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  5. -35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bumpus View Post
    You've missed the point.

    I have the right to defend myself. I think I'll hold on to that right.

    Sticking your head in the sand and saying that you'd feel safer if other people didn't carry a gun, won't stop other people from carrying a gun. If someone does not care about following the law, how exactly is gun control legislation going to stop them? Increased restrictions on firearms only limits law abiding citizens.
    I don't think anti-gun control people really realize how dumb this sounds... as if because someone has broken a few laws in their life suddenly they don't give a **** about any law like they're in Lord of the Flies or something.

    Once I robbed a convenience store, and now I rape women and snort heroin and don't pay my taxes and drive 50 miles and hour over the speed limit and kill police officers because in for a penny in for a pound amirite?

    Is that really the way you think "criminals" work?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWalrus View Post
    Here is a link to almost 150 years of homicide rates in the UK. http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/1996...ational-00028/

    If you look at that list and see "gun control not working" then good for you. I see a rate rising and falling linked to many factors. Wars, social unrest, economic factors, population factors (including population density)... it is a complicated issue. The rate, as you'll observe, was on a down trend by 1910 and continued to fall, then went up, then down again, then up.

    If you're going to be so eager to draw causal links between gun control in the UK and their homicide rate, perhaps you'd like to explain these variations to me.



    Look in the mirror, pal.



    I do not trust you at all.
    Please explain your look in the mirror pal??

    What is that supposed to mean? I'm partisan? If that's the conclusion you have drawn, maybe your not as sharp as I give you credit. My beliefs cannot possibly be properly illustrated by either of our failed two parties. I'm going to guess you think I'm really a conservative because of my beliefs on firearms. Well, I guess I'm the first conservative you know that thought Bush was garbage, Reagan was unbelievably over rated, spent way too much, and allowed the CIA to destroy neighborhoods and countless lives all in the process to arm the contras.

    Yeah I'm the first conservative you've ever seen that is not religious, spiritual maybe, pro choice, pro gay rights (all rights for any group really), and who really respected Gary Webb. You got me buddy, I'm a partisan hack just like you, you're too sharp for me.

    Reagan was just as bad as all the rest of the crappy presidents we have had during my lifetime at least. I have to go back to Eisenhower to find the last leader I felt did a decent job, and at least told it like it is in his farewell address.

    Anyway, getting back to the subject, YOU are the one that mentioned how countries with strict gun laws had a lower murder rate. That is such a ridiculous broad statement to someone that studies the numbers and KNOWS the real truth is much more complicated than that, it has much more to do with wealth, culture, political systems devised to divide, which are all factors much closer related to the murder rate than firearm laws.

    As for not trusting me that's fine, I'll keep my feelings for you to myself though, as I would much rather stick around this forum to see exactly how full of it you are.

    I've been on this forum a long time, not everybody agrees with me, but I'm pretty sure most of the long timers would know I do my best not to tell any untruths.
    Last edited by phinfan3411; 03-05-2014 at 09:10 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWalrus View Post
    I don't think anti-gun control people really realize how dumb this sounds... as if because someone has broken a few laws in their life suddenly they don't give a **** about any law like they're in Lord of the Flies or something.

    Once I robbed a convenience store, and now I rape women and snort heroin and don't pay my taxes and drive 50 miles and hour over the speed limit and kill police officers because in for a penny in for a pound amirite?

    Is that really the way you think "criminals" work?
    You do realize that convicted felons already aren't allowed to possess firearms, right?

    What will new legislation do to prevent this - that isn't already in place?


    Nothing. It would simply infringe upon MY rights.
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Stannis Baratheon
    Lord Seaworth is a man of humble birth, but he reminded me of my duty, when all I could think of was my rights. I had the cart before the horse, Davos said. I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bumpus View Post
    You do realize that convicted felons already aren't allowed to possess firearms, right?

    What will new legislation do to prevent this - that isn't already in place?

    Nothing. It would simply infringe upon MY rights.
    It's not that simple. You actually have to have spent at least a year in prison -- or have been convicted of certain specific crimes, like domestic violence -- to be prohibited. But since there is no federal mechanism in place to verify the validity of identification used at a gun sale, it's reasonably easy to fake an ID of someone allowed to purchase a gun and get through a federally licensed dealer. West Virginia doesn't help the matter by not instituting "point of contact" background checks which can check for things like outstanding warrants, restraining orders and mental health records which are not available to the FBI. Basically, West Virginia does none of it's own research on it's own databases. All background checks are referred to the FBI, which has incomplete information.

    Also, West Virginia does not have any kind of a waiting period to buy a gun and does not require state licenses or permits to own a gun, not even for open carry .

    Obviously gun shows and private sales are a huge issue, as there is no background check required for any of these sales. A convicted felon has about as much trouble buying a gun at a gun show as they do buying a hamburger.

    New legislation could start by making it harder for people who the law says shouldn't have a gun to actually get one. You're a law abiding citizen. You're able to jump through hoops because you haven't -- at least I presume -- been convicted of a crime where you spent at least a year in prison. You can pass any kind of a background check. So why not make them ubiquitous? Why not engage every state, local and federal resource into their comprehensiveness? Why not require a state permit to keep better track of these guns, especially since West Virginia does not require that you report if guns are lost or stolen?
    Last edited by TheWalrus; 03-05-2014 at 02:33 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWalrus View Post
    It's not that simple. You actually have to have spent at least a year in prison -- or have been convicted of certain specific crimes, like domestic violence -- to be prohibited. But since there is no federal mechanism in place to verify the validity of identification used at a gun sale, it's reasonably easy to fake an ID of someone allowed to purchase a gun and get through a federally licensed dealer. West Virginia doesn't help the matter by not instituting "point of contact" background checks which can check for things like outstanding warrants, restraining orders and mental health records which are not available to the FBI. Basically, West Virginia does none of it's own research on it's own databases. All background checks are referred to the FBI, which has incomplete information.

    Also, West Virginia does not have any kind of a waiting period to buy a gun and does not require state licenses or permits to own a gun, not even for open carry .

    Obviously gun shows and private sales are a huge issue, as there is no background check required for any of these sales. A convicted felon has about as much trouble buying a gun at a gun show as they do buying a hamburger.

    New legislation could start by making it harder for people who the law says shouldn't have a gun to actually get one. You're a law abiding citizen. You're able to jump through hoops because you haven't -- at least I presume -- been convicted of a crime where you spent at least a year in prison. You can pass any kind of a background check. So why not make them ubiquitous? Why not engage every state, local and federal resource into their comprehensiveness? Why not require a state permit to keep better track of these guns, especially since West Virginia does not require that you report if guns are lost or stolen?
    You have to at least have spent a year in prison to be prohibited, or committed certain crimes???

    I'm not sure you are correct. I would bet you really do not know how the system works, but figure you'll join in anyway. NICS checks which accompany all non private (admitted that's a big one) firearm sales, and believe me, you can be turned down for having a similar name to a felon...but go on, you seem to really have a great grasp of the system.

    In my state, NICS checks are required for EVERY sale, private or not(excluding immediate family), which obviously include filling out a 4473. At least I think that's the law in my state, the walrus will probably correct me. And gosh it sure has made the state safer...unless you look at little things like murder rates, but I'm sure it will work in time.

    Oh, and we are not allowed to buy semi automatic rifles that LOOK a certain way. I'm not talking about function, I'm talking about aesthetics. Gun grabbers are not what you would call rational thinkers.
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