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Thread: Best article I've seen yet on Putin/Ukraine situation

  1. -11
    LANGER72's Avatar
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    In Star Trek jargon...
    The USA is the United Federation of Planets, and the Russians are the Klingon Empire.

    ---------- Post added at 05:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:33 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by NY8123 View Post
    I laugh at the people who think Obama could or would have done anything to stop it. These ****ers in Washington knew this was coming, this has been coming since the wall fell, Russia isn't and wasn't going to give up its empire and I fail to see how anyone with over a 6th grade education didn't see Putin (old school KGB) undermining anything resembling a democracy and heading right back into socialistic USSR.

    Hell I could make the case that Putin is more forthright than Obama himself, at least with Putin you know his agenda.

    Sarah Palin told him in 2008, yet Obamster did nothing...
    LOL
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    uk_dolfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LANGER72 View Post
    In Star Trek jargon...
    The USA is the United Federation of Planets, and the Russians are the Klingon Empire.
    LOL
    Not quite, the federation aint as keen on invasion as the US is - nor is the UK for that matter.

    Not as bad as russia but the US are no saints when it comes to foreign policy.
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    I can't believe that I am saying this but Obama had done what he needs to do here and that is stay out of it. Let the dust settle and work the situation to our best advantage economically and strategically.

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    TheWalrus's Avatar
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    So it looks like no one has the stomach to even threaten military intervention in Ukraine, much less actually consider it. I don't blame them. I don't have the stomach for it, either. But it does beg the question, what would it take for us to have the stomach for it? What if they decide to annex Belarus, which has a significant Russian speaking population? What about Estonia, or Latvia, or even Poland? Are we willing to go to war with Russia over Poland? I understand these are NATO countries, but I honestly don't think that matters that much. Treaties and alliances and agreements do not really matter. They're just pieces of paper. All that matters is what you're willing to DO.

    I think it's important for everyone to figure out where they stand on this. It's one thing to say that Ukraine has to be left out in the cold, despite international law, despite Russia's treaty with Ukraine over it's borders, despite the obvious bull**** of the "Russian citizens are threatened". The people of Crimea were not calling out for this at all, and now Russians are being bussed into Eastern Ukraine to start riots and protests.

    So where's the line? Is there no line? Is all that's stopping Putin -- a child of the Cold War who laments the fall of the Soviet Union -- from recapturing most of Eastern Europe is just whether he wants to?

    BTW here's another really good article on this situation (which has nothing to do with the point I'm making in this post): http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...pinion_LEADTop
    Last edited by TheWalrus; 03-04-2014 at 03:27 AM.
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    Best article I've seen yet on Putin/Ukraine situation

    As much as I abhor war, there must be a line. No one stopped Hitler's expansion until much damage had been done and it became an international crisis where every European nation was threatened.

    If they go after Poland, it will trigger a war between Russia and the EU, and the US will be involved somehow. Let's hope it never gets to that. Last thing we want to see is WWIII with a bunch of nukes everywhere.


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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWalrus View Post
    So it looks like no one has the stomach to even threaten military intervention in Ukraine, much less actually consider it. I don't blame them. I don't have the stomach for it, either. But it does beg the question, what would it take for us to have the stomach for it? What if they decide to annex Belarus, which has a significant Russian speaking population? What about Estonia, or Latvia, or even Poland? Are we willing to go to war with Russia over Poland? I understand these are NATO countries, but I honestly don't think that matters that much. Treaties and alliances and agreements do not really matter. They're just pieces of paper. All that matters is what you're willing to DO.

    I think it's important for everyone to figure out where they stand on this. It's one thing to say that Ukraine has to be left out in the cold, despite international law, despite Russia's treaty with Ukraine over it's borders, despite the obvious bull**** of the "Russian citizens are threatened". The people of Crimea were not calling out for this at all, and now Russians are being bussed into Eastern Ukraine to start riots and protests.

    So where's the line? Is there no line? Is all that's stopping Putin -- a child of the Cold War who laments the fall of the Soviet Union -- from recapturing most of Eastern Europe is just whether he wants to?

    BTW here's another really good article on this situation (which has nothing to do with the point I'm making in this post): http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...pinion_LEADTop
    First of all it is a Ukrainian problem. They elected the same nutcase who lost his job because of corruption and fraud the first time. They don't belong to any organization and freely elected Yanukovych knowing where he stands and knowing about his past. They put him in power in the first place. It is more like Italians bitching and moaning and wanting re-elections because of fraud and corruption and then they keep electing Berlusconi.

    Economic and political sanctions seem in order. Russia relies much more on the Western market than the other way around.

    Latvia and Estonia as well as Poland are members of the EU. All three are also members of NATO. They are fully integrated into the Western Society. That would be a whole different ball game. Because of these reasons and the attempt by Russia to militarily expand which should be the one and only time where we should use history as a lesson, as NATO member you are obligated to intervene and I would have no problems with it.

    Belarus and Ukraine are very similar. Both have Presidents who support Russia and the elections they conducted were marred by fraud and corruption and opposition was intimidated by police. The President of Belarus is in his 4th or 5th term and despite wide spread opposition he always wins by 80-90%. It looks more like the old Eastern style "democracy" where the ruling party always wins and opposition is nothing more than cosmetics. While Ukraine had different Prime Ministers and Presidents they essentially elected the one person which would give them the 'best chance' to lean more towards Russia and who already lost his job before because of corruption and fraud.

    We have to ask ourselves at what point do we stop bailing countries out who dug themselves into a hole. Though not members of the EU I would stand with the EU for economic sanctions towards Russia and political consequences. But nothing more than that.
    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

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