Welcome to FinHeaven Fans Forums! We're glad to have you here. Please feel free to browse the forum. We'd like to invite you to join our community; doing so will enable you to view additional forums and post with our other members.



VIP Members don't see these ads. Join VIP Now
Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 57

Thread: Video: Why Libertarians Are Idiots

  1. -21
    JTC111's Avatar
    Lookin' for Lee Ho Fooks

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Jul 2012
    Posts:
    2,417
    vCash:
    18004
    Loc:
    Kings Park, NY
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by Dolphins9954 View Post
    Corporatism and Cronyism is the result of bloated government budgets. Too much money and power that's waiting to get hijacked and corrupted.
    You've got the cart before the horse. A lack of regulation prohibiting their massive influence is why corporations control much of government today. Bloated government budgets are, in part anyway, a result of pressure on politicians to provide big paydays to their corporate overlords for financial support of parties, campaigns, PACs, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dolphins9954 View Post
    The MIC is quite regulated....for the benefit of the corporations involved. Fact is when you have a government that has far-reaching powers to take money and spend it along with having rich, elite friends. Then you have what we have now.
    Again, I have to disagree. The MIC has enormous power over government because regulations aren't in place to keep that power in check. That's why we wind up with this kind of crap happening: http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012...-drones-ships/
    Jim

    "A criminal is a person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation."


    Not even their mothers can tell them apart.
    Quote Quote  

  2. -22
    Buddy's Avatar
    Starter

    Status:
    Online
    WPA:
    Join date:
    May 2004
    Posts:
    3,196
    vCash:
    9120
    Loc:
    Victoria, TX
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Sorry JTC, if you trust the government any more than you trust corporations then you have been severely deceived. Regulations or not, money talks and BS walks...that is just life. All regulations do, for the most part, is eliminate competition for the corporations by putting up barriers to entry. Now you have seen enough of my rants to know that I am very fiscally conservative but do not adhere to any ideology or party. However, this guy is just a useful idiot that has been emotionally charged. What he is saying is simply not true and will not have the outcome that he expects. Regulating the crap out of business will simply eliminate all of the small guys and put even more money in to the "Fat Cat's" wallets. Furthermore, who in the heck do you think is writing all of those regulations? Your friendly neighborhood congressman? Hell no, the lobbyists are pushing the language for all of these bills to ensure that it benefits their clients. Then they burden them with pork riders so they can get passed and the companies stay protected by the very government that is supposed to be regulating it. Screw all of that, I will watch my own back, thank you.

    Corporations are not the enemy, they are what puts food on the table and a few dollars in the pocket of the people who work for them. Liberal politicians would love you to think that corporations are the devil but ultimately they are the ones paying the bills and keeping people working. You can't cut off your nose to spite your face. Ultimately, the consumer has far more control over corporations than the government ever will. Liberal politicians and pundits can not admit this fact or they couldn't justify their need for massive government intervention at every level of our life. If we don't buy a corporation's products, they will go belly up. It really is as simple as that.

    Before you think that I am some kind of anarchist, I do advocate some basic parameters and rules of engagement in business. I do believe in some regulation (less than now) with very severe consequences (more severe than now) for violations. However, I mostly believe in allowing the market to regulate itself because most government intervention ultimately backfires and fails.
    Quote Quote  

  3. -23
    phinfan3411's Avatar
    pofo mofo

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Apr 2007
    Posts:
    2,574
    vCash:
    3329
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    Sorry JTC, if you trust the government any more than you trust corporations then you have been severely deceived. Regulations or not, money talks and BS walks...that is just life. All regulations do, for the most part, is eliminate competition for the corporations by putting up barriers to entry. Now you have seen enough of my rants to know that I am very fiscally conservative but do not adhere to any ideology or party. However, this guy is just a useful idiot that has been emotionally charged. What he is saying is simply not true and will not have the outcome that he expects. Regulating the crap out of business will simply eliminate all of the small guys and put even more money in to the "Fat Cat's" wallets. Furthermore, who in the heck do you think is writing all of those regulations? Your friendly neighborhood congressman? Hell no, the lobbyists are pushing the language for all of these bills to ensure that it benefits their clients. Then they burden them with pork riders so they can get passed and the companies stay protected by the very government that is supposed to be regulating it. Screw all of that, I will watch my own back, thank you.

    Corporations are not the enemy, they are what puts food on the table and a few dollars in the pocket of the people who work for them. Liberal politicians would love you to think that corporations are the devil but ultimately they are the ones paying the bills and keeping people working. You can't cut off your nose to spite your face. Ultimately, the consumer has far more control over corporations than the government ever will. Liberal politicians and pundits can not admit this fact or they couldn't justify their need for massive government intervention at every level of our life. If we don't buy a corporation's products, they will go belly up. It really is as simple as that.

    Before you think that I am some kind of anarchist, I do advocate some basic parameters and rules of engagement in business. I do believe in some regulation (less than now) with very severe consequences (more severe than now) for violations. However, I mostly believe in allowing the market to regulate itself because most government intervention ultimately backfires and fails.
    I would have to agree with Buddy. Here in NY, Unions are real happy with regulations, mostly since they bribe our legislators to write things that benefit them.

    For every state, county and city construction job, bidders MUST have a sort of training apprentice program that the smaller, cheaper non union outfits do not have the money for. So in my state, those bids are starting out incredibly high without the right type of competition from the get go. I believe even my local paper wrote about how expensive that little regulation is for NY taxpayers. It is not out of the ordinary in my area to pay 5k a year property tax on a 100k house...seriously.

    I would love to talk to this guy, I do agree there has to be regulation, but we need to make it illegal for any private money getting into the hands of our politicians. When that is ignored, we have what we have today.
    Quote Quote  

  4. -24
    JTC111's Avatar
    Lookin' for Lee Ho Fooks

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Jul 2012
    Posts:
    2,417
    vCash:
    18004
    Loc:
    Kings Park, NY
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    Sorry JTC, if you trust the government any more than you trust corporations then you have been severely deceived.
    When did I say that? I said the solution has to come from government because that's where the rules are made.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    All regulations do, for the most part, is eliminate competition for the corporations by putting up barriers to entry.
    You have it completely backwards. Remember your history lessons from back in the day. During the late 1800s, the government took a laissez-faire approach to business and we wound up with monopolies that eliminated competition and decreased consumer purchasing power. To counter that, the government created news laws (Sherman Anti-Trust Act, Clayton Anti-Trust Act, etc.) and regulations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    Now you have seen enough of my rants to know that I am very fiscally conservative but do not adhere to any ideology or party. However, this guy is just a useful idiot that has been emotionally charged.
    You make it sound like it isn't an issue worth getting angry over. I'm going to have to disagree with that implication. I think it's very much worthy of our anger and the sooner we reach a boiling point, the sooner we force government's hand to make regulatory changes that benefit the living, breathing citizens of this country.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    who in the heck do you think is writing all of those regulations? Your friendly neighborhood congressman? Hell no, the lobbyists are pushing the language for all of these bills to ensure that it benefits their clients. Then they burden them with pork riders so they can get passed and the companies stay protected by the very government that is supposed to be regulating it.
    You can't say this and then two seconds later say, "Corporations are not the enemy." You're condemning the greed but defending the greedy. It makes no sense and certainly doesn't bode well for a solution to this problem that plagues us all.

    Remember this: every corporation ...all of them... every single one, exists to separate you from your money. That is their sole purpose. We hope that we'll get something useful for our money, some product or service that will benefit us. But if they can get our money without providing a useful product or service, or by providing a substandard product or service, they will. The only way to protect the consumer is through regulation. I'm not talking about corporate-sponsored regulation like the crap A.L.E.C. feeds to us; I mean regulations meant to insure that we're not getting ripped off, either as individual consumers or as a nation (environmental cleanups, etc.).

    The bills coming out of Washington lately, the ones it sounds like you're referring to as "regulations," are not regulations at all, but rather efforts at deregulation. Industry isn't sponsoring changes to the law that protect citizens. Industry wants laws that strip away protective regulations in order to make it easier to separate us from our money and to decrease their liability when the walls come crashing down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    Screw all of that, I will watch my own back, thank you.
    Except that you can't. Not very effectively anyway. You don't have the power to effect any meaningful change on your own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    Corporations are not the enemy, they are what puts food on the table and a few dollars in the pocket of the people who work for them.
    "Enemy"? No, but the interests of corporations are very often in direct opposition to the interests of the people. For example, corporations want to outlay as little as possible in production costs, so they take jobs that used to support families in this country and ship them overseas to sweatshops in 3rd world countries where impoverished people work in conditions in which neither you or I would ever allow any of our loved ones to exist. Corporations are not our friends. A corporation does not exist to benefit anyone or anything other than itself. Now don't interpret that as me saying corporations shouldn't exist. I'm fine with them existing, but they shouldn't be working against the best interests of this country and its people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    Liberal politicians would love you to think that corporations are the devil but ultimately they are the ones paying the bills and keeping people working.
    Jobs are created through demand for goods and services. Demand cannot increase unless people have money to spend on goods and services. If profits alone created jobs, this country would be flush with jobs because corporations are making and sitting upon enormous amounts of money. And as far as corporations paying the bills, I call bs on that one: http://www.ctj.org/pdf/notax2012.pdf

    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    Ultimately, the consumer has far more control over corporations than the government ever will.
    No. Corporations control the government, and the government controls citizens. That dynamic has to change which is why we need to remove all private money from politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    Liberal politicians and pundits can not admit this fact or they couldn't justify their need for massive government intervention at every level of our life.
    I've yet to see the conservative politician who's looking out for my best interests.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    If we don't buy a corporation's products, they will go belly up. It really is as simple as that.
    It could be as simple as that if the deck weren't so stacked in favor of the corporations. We're not playing on a level field right now.
    Quote Quote  

  5. -25
    LANGER72's Avatar
    Hall Of Famer

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Nov 2006
    Posts:
    7,969
    vCash:
    21330
    Loc:
    Munchkin Land / Emerald C
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by JTC111 View Post
    When did I say that? I said the solution has to come from government because that's where the rules are made.

    The government is always over reaching and over regulating. They need to get out of the way and stop interfering with free market.


    You have it completely backwards. Remember your history lessons from back in the day. During the late 1800s, the government took a laissez-faire approach to business and we wound up with monopolies that eliminated competition and decreased consumer purchasing power. To counter that, the government created news laws (Sherman Anti-Trust Act, Clayton Anti-Trust Act, etc.) and regulations.

    Those laws were needed. However creating newer layers of laws in causing gridlock and unnecessary frees and penalties. The government now creates laws to cater to special interest. It has swung 180'
    Look at the economy. The government needs to loosen its grip.



    You make it sound like it isn't an issue worth getting angry over. I'm going to have to disagree with that implication. I think it's very much worthy of our anger and the sooner we reach a boiling point, the sooner we force government's hand to make regulatory changes that benefit the living, breathing citizens of this country.

    The government's role is maintaining law and order and national defense. The problems start when the government gets involved in regulations that benefits to a certain segment of the society. No matter what is done, half the country will not like it. The losing side becomes angry, and the that is not a good thing. The government should not get involved in peoples lives in that manner.


    You can't say this and then two seconds later say, "Corporations are not the enemy." You're condemning the greed but defending the greedy. It makes no sense and certainly doesn't bode well for a solution to this problem that plagues us all.

    Greed is human nature. One man's satisfaction is another man greed. The man with a small house envies the man with the big house. Work harder and smarter and buy that bigger house. Taking money from the owner of the big house and giving it to the man with the small house is discriminatory against hard work and superior intellect.

    Remember this: every corporation ...all of them... every single one, exists to separate you from your money. That is their sole purpose. We hope that we'll get something useful for our money, some product or service that will benefit us. But if they can get our money without providing a useful product or service, or by providing a substandard product or service, they will. The only way to protect the consumer is through regulation. I'm not talking about corporate-sponsored regulation like the crap A.L.E.C. feeds to us; I mean regulations meant to insure that we're not getting ripped off, either as individual consumers or as a nation (environmental cleanups, etc.).

    No one is forcing you to buy anything. If you cannot afford, or unwilling to spend the money, just do without. It is called free will. Get a better paying job and work until you can afford it. The government cannot become robin hood. The consumer protection agency and lawyers prevent consumers from getting ripped off.

    The bills coming out of Washington lately, the ones it sounds like you're referring to as "regulations," are not regulations at all, but rather efforts at deregulation. Industry isn't sponsoring changes to the law that protect citizens. Industry wants laws that strip away protective regulations in order to make it easier to separate us from our money and to decrease their liability when the walls come crashing down.

    The walls will come crashing down because of this administrations policies. They are counter to growth. If you abhor living without money, you are living in the wrong century.


    Except that you can't. Not very effectively anyway. You don't have the power to effect any meaningful change on your own.

    Thanks for cluing me in. I never would have realized that on my own.

    It is wonderful watching a naive and under educated mind learn and grow on the internet.



    "Enemy"? No, but the interests of corporations are very often in direct opposition to the interests of the people. For example, corporations want to outlay as little as possible in production costs, so they take jobs that used to support families in this country and ship them overseas to sweatshops in 3rd world countries where impoverished people work in conditions in which neither you or I would ever allow any of our loved ones to exist. Corporations are not our friends. A corporation does not exist to benefit anyone or anything other than itself. Now don't interpret that as me saying corporations shouldn't exist. I'm fine with them existing, but they shouldn't be working against the best interests of this country and its people.

    You talk like a socialist


    Jobs are created through demand for goods and services. Demand cannot increase unless people have money to spend on goods and services. If profits alone created jobs, this country would be flush with jobs because corporations are making and sitting upon enormous amounts of money. And as far as corporations paying the bills, I call bs on that one: http://www.ctj.org/pdf/notax2012.pdf

    Corporations and the government are making enormous amounts of money. Main street and small business are getting the shaft. This administration is not helping them.


    No. Corporations control the government, and the government controls citizens. That dynamic has to change which is why we need to remove all private money from politics.

    Corporations lobby corrupt politicians who impose laws and regulations and laws that control business and citizens. Ethics and criminal investigations can clean this up.


    I've yet to see the conservative politician who's looking out for my best interests.

    The politicians in Washington have morphed into corrupt self serving aholes. This goes for both parties. The liberal regressive s are worse than republicans. Look at the results over the last 6 years.


    It could be as simple as that if the deck weren't so stacked in favor of the corporations. We're not playing on a level field right now.
    Get an education and get a job. Stop complaining about the hill you have to climb. I hope someday I will see you near the top.
    Quote Quote  

  6. -26
    JTC111's Avatar
    Lookin' for Lee Ho Fooks

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Jul 2012
    Posts:
    2,417
    vCash:
    18004
    Loc:
    Kings Park, NY
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by LANGER72 View Post
    Get an education and get a job. Stop complaining about the hill you have to climb. I hope someday I will see you near the top.
    Lol... I have a masters degree and I make a six-figure income. I'm doing quite nicely. Your error is in assuming that my concern about the state of things is a reflection of my own economic status. I don't operate that way. My complaints aren't about my own personal situation; they're about the situation in which the country and its people as a whole find themselves.
    Quote Quote  

  7. -27
    WVDolphan's Avatar
    Two Little Debbies and a cup of coffee

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Aug 2005
    Posts:
    14,226
    vCash:
    3265
    Thanks / No Thanks
    2013 Dolphins Logo
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    Sorry JTC, if you trust the government any more than you trust corporations then you have been severely deceived. Regulations or not, money talks and BS walks...that is just life. All regulations do, for the most part, is eliminate competition for the corporations by putting up barriers to entry. Now you have seen enough of my rants to know that I am very fiscally conservative but do not adhere to any ideology or party. However, this guy is just a useful idiot that has been emotionally charged. What he is saying is simply not true and will not have the outcome that he expects. Regulating the crap out of business will simply eliminate all of the small guys and put even more money in to the "Fat Cat's" wallets. Furthermore, who in the heck do you think is writing all of those regulations? Your friendly neighborhood congressman? Hell no, the lobbyists are pushing the language for all of these bills to ensure that it benefits their clients. Then they burden them with pork riders so they can get passed and the companies stay protected by the very government that is supposed to be regulating it. Screw all of that, I will watch my own back, thank you.

    Corporations are not the enemy, they are what puts food on the table and a few dollars in the pocket of the people who work for them. Liberal politicians would love you to think that corporations are the devil but ultimately they are the ones paying the bills and keeping people working. You can't cut off your nose to spite your face. Ultimately, the consumer has far more control over corporations than the government ever will. Liberal politicians and pundits can not admit this fact or they couldn't justify their need for massive government intervention at every level of our life. If we don't buy a corporation's products, they will go belly up. It really is as simple as that.

    Before you think that I am some kind of anarchist, I do advocate some basic parameters and rules of engagement in business. I do believe in some regulation (less than now) with very severe consequences (more severe than now) for violations. However, I mostly believe in allowing the market to regulate itself because most government intervention ultimately backfires and fails.
    Bingo.

    The guy in the video is a complete moron. Its as if he really believes that one day we can fix government and they will cease to be nothing more than a middle man. All government regulations do is create a political game that the corporations must spend money on by way of lobbyists.

    In the video he seems to believe that we humans are a bunch of morons and all in all bad people. Where does he believe our politicians that wind up in office come from? They come from a selected pool of the same population of people he is speaking of. Granted, they are typically smarter than the average person, they are usually just as rotten, if not more so. Most of them are pawns who are bought and sold by lobbyists. They simply have to do a little dance to keep the electorate happy. Government is simply a puppet show for the people.

    I also take issue with that guy believing all of us pay no attention to what we choose to spend our money on. Personally I think there are many of us who try to make educated choices about who winds up with our money. The people he is speaking of who blindly feed money to bad businesses are generally those who he wants to give money to by over taxing the wealthy.................... the poor and uneducated. Leave it to a clueless, bleeding heart, liberal to think that way though.
    Quote Quote  

  8. -28
    X-Pacolypse's Avatar
    Finheaven Hall of Fame

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Jan 2008
    Posts:
    21,293
    vCash:
    1797
    Loc:
    Chandler, Arizona
    Thanks / No Thanks
    That guy is an idiot.
    Quote Quote  

  9. -29
    LANGER72's Avatar
    Hall Of Famer

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Nov 2006
    Posts:
    7,969
    vCash:
    21330
    Loc:
    Munchkin Land / Emerald C
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by JTC111 View Post
    Lol... I have a masters degree and I make a six-figure income. I'm doing quite nicely. Your error is in assuming that my concern about the state of things is a reflection of my own economic status. I don't operate that way. My complaints aren't about my own personal situation; they're about the situation in which the country and its people as a whole find themselves.
    Good for you. I am equally successful and have no problem pointing out the hypocrisy of your posts.
    If it bothers you to the core, live in a cardboard box and give away your fortune to others who need it more.
    Do not try to legislate others to do it for you.
    Quote Quote  

  10. -30
    JTC111's Avatar
    Lookin' for Lee Ho Fooks

    Status:
    Offline
    WPA:
    Join date:
    Jul 2012
    Posts:
    2,417
    vCash:
    18004
    Loc:
    Kings Park, NY
    Thanks / No Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by LANGER72 View Post
    Good for you. I am equally successful and have no problem pointing out the hypocrisy of your posts.
    If it bothers you to the core, live in a cardboard box and give away your fortune to others who need it more.
    Do not try to legislate others to do it for you.
    Hypocrisy, my ass. I'm not advocating that people should live in a cardboard box nor am I advocating that anyone give away their fortunes. I'm advocating fairness because as it sits now, we have very little of that. You make a lot of erroneous assumptions.
    Quote Quote  

Similar Threads

  1. Most U.S. libertarians do not identify with Tea Party: survey
    By Dolphins9954 in forum Political | War Forum
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: 11-23-2013, 12:21 PM
  2. Libertarians are not corporate apologists
    By Dolphins9954 in forum Political | War Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-22-2012, 08:44 PM
  3. Libertarians File Antitrust Suit Against Democrats, Republicans and CPD.
    By Dolphins9954 in forum Political | War Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 09-22-2012, 11:34 PM
  4. Disrespectful Libertarians Hijack CPAC Poll and its Mission
    By LouPhinFan in forum Political | War Forum
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 02-18-2011, 07:44 AM
  5. Libertarians at CPAC 2011
    By X-Pacolypse in forum Political | War Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-16-2011, 02:42 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •