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Thread: Top 5 (offense)

  1. -21
    Awsi Dooger's Avatar
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    If Bridgewater somehow slips to #19 and we don't take him, I'm not sure there's much reason to pay attention to 2014, or the Hickey era in general. You have to completely forget you have Tannehill on the roster and simply pull the trigger. I don't believe he'll slide that far but Daniel Jeremiah had him down to #26 in his mock tonight, after sampling opinion following that pro day.

    The pro day was hysterical, BTW. Who cares about errant throws on roll outs? That's not even Bridgewater's game. It never has been, dating to Northwestern High. He's a pocket type who can calmly drop it into the bucket as well as anyone in recent memory. It's easily the strength of his game. Downfield on more conventional throws he still needs some work, as I witnessed at the Russell Athletic Bowl.

    I still can't get over those roll out plays. Those account for what, 3-6% of NFL throws? Fans clamor for them but they are worthless, essentially cutting off half the field on yourself. If the typical fan had his say, every other throw would be a screen pass or a roll out.

    I like most of the ratings. Marquise Lee higher than most is very astute, along with spotlighting a past season. He was more brilliant that year than guys rated ahead of him have ever been. So much talk about drops. But how often are passes dropped? If you fixate on that type of thing it's like over valuing bunker play in golf analysis. Great, he'll be in a bunker once per round. Nice focus. A receiver drops a pass less than once per game. I have no idea how the low percentage categories carry so much attention.

    I'll be sick if we name Zach Martin. That would be the draft equivalent of patching our stadium for $400 million. Sure, we're technically better off than we were 5 minutes ago, but at what cost? You can't afford to be that simple and shortsighted. In a draft receiving raves for front line talent there have to be superior options than a narrow-framed short-armed 23 year old workmanlike player.
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  2. -22
    j-off-her-doll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awsi Dooger View Post
    If Bridgewater somehow slips to #19 and we don't take him, I'm not sure there's much reason to pay attention to 2014, or the Hickey era in general. You have to completely forget you have Tannehill on the roster and simply pull the trigger. I don't believe he'll slide that far but Daniel Jeremiah had him down to #26 in his mock tonight, after sampling opinion following that pro day.

    The pro day was hysterical, BTW. Who cares about errant throws on roll outs? That's not even Bridgewater's game. It never has been, dating to Northwestern High. He's a pocket type who can calmly drop it into the bucket as well as anyone in recent memory. It's easily the strength of his game. Downfield on more conventional throws he still needs some work, as I witnessed at the Russell Athletic Bowl.

    I still can't get over those roll out plays. Those account for what, 3-6% of NFL throws? Fans clamor for them but they are worthless, essentially cutting off half the field on yourself. If the typical fan had his say, every other throw would be a screen pass or a roll out.

    I like most of the ratings. Marquise Lee higher than most is very astute, along with spotlighting a past season. He was more brilliant that year than guys rated ahead of him have ever been. So much talk about drops. But how often are passes dropped? If you fixate on that type of thing it's like over valuing bunker play in golf analysis. Great, he'll be in a bunker once per round. Nice focus. A receiver drops a pass less than once per game. I have no idea how the low percentage categories carry so much attention.

    I'll be sick if we name Zach Martin. That would be the draft equivalent of patching our stadium for $400 million. Sure, we're technically better off than we were 5 minutes ago, but at what cost? You can't afford to be that simple and shortsighted. In a draft receiving raves for front line talent there have to be superior options than a narrow-framed short-armed 23 year old workmanlike player.
    I wouldn't pass on Bridgewater or Manziel at 19. To me, they're clearly the two best QB's in the draft. I think Bortles has a lot of potential, but given the elite traits that both Bridgewater and Manziel possess, I don't think he has a higher ceiling than either, and I think he's much more likely to bust. I really dislike the way guys like DJ handle their mocks. You still think Bridgewater is the best QB, but you're projecting him to fall to #26? Instead of guessing which teams might take who, tell us who YOU think they should draft. Emory Hunt takes this approach, and his mocks are always more interesting - mostly because of this. I think Manziel and Bridgewater are two of the very best QB prospects over the last 5+ seasons. I'd only rate Luck and Newton ahead of them. Passing on either to build around a guy who has never been great doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

    I wouldn't be at all surprised if any of the top 4 WR's (according to me) become the best from this class.

    If you handle FA and the middle rounds well, you shouldn't feel compelled to draft Zach Martin in the 1st. Obviously, we haven't done either well under Ireland, but that doesn't change how we should approach this draft. For some reason, people seem to gloss over the idea that to draft Martin is to miss out on players (that other teams will acquire) who are much better. If you aren't adding elite talent in the draft, you're behind the other teams that are. When we drafted Tannehill, I remember Slimm warning that you're passing up better talent. He mocked Kuechly to us. I think there's a good chance that we'll be in the QB market sooner rather than later, and it sure would be nice to have Kuechly in the middle of our D. But this is even worse. When you need a QB, there's some justification at least for reaching. But an OG or a RT? GTFO! If you can't find a good one beyond the 1st, you're ****ed anyway.
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  3. -23
    hooshoops's Avatar
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    if i'm houston i don't care about the pro day showing i'm taking teddy bridgewater...i have seen plenyt of evidence of his ability to throw with pace and accuracy on the rollout and on the move...to his strong and weak side...

    pro day wouldn't deter me at all...

    have to disagree though with the zach martin takes...i don't need special oline play i just need solid and dependable...and i think he's that at right tackle or guard...
    hoops scoops 2012 season ..."in 2014 ryan tannehill etches his name in stone amongst the games elite qbs"..."ryan tannehill and andrew luck will carry the afc for the next decade plus the way peyton manning and tom brady have this last decade plus"
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  4. -24
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    Quote Originally Posted by hooshoops View Post
    if i'm houston i don't care about the pro day showing i'm taking teddy bridgewater...i have seen plenyt of evidence of his ability to throw with pace and accuracy on the rollout and on the move...to his strong and weak side...

    pro day wouldn't deter me at all...

    have to disagree though with the zach martin takes...i don't need special oline play i just need solid and dependable...and i think he's that at right tackle or guard...
    I've seen EVERY game Teddy has played in college and I can tell you there are zero issues with him on his roll out passes. The funny thing is he may actually be a bit better throwing when he's rolling to his left. The way he squares his shoulders to the LOS on those throws and drops them on a dime to his receiver? Yes please.

    I think what you're hearing about Bridgewater is the smoke screen affect. Sure there are a few front offices that have Bridgewater lower than most but I bet it's not many. All the QB needy teams (and some that aren't) that are high on him are feeding crap to the draft media to make others have second thoughts about him. Blah blah...his small frame...blah blah...lack of leadership...whatever. He's the best pre-snap QB since Andrew Luck that needs some work on his deep ball. He has the ball placement accuracy that you can't teach, a film room - football first junky, and is as tough as nails.

    I seriously doubt he gets past #3 much less all the way down to #26. That's just stupid.
    Nearly 70% of the Earth is covered by water...the rest is covered by Gerod Holliman.

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  5. -25
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    As of this stage Bridgewater isn't in the top 2 QB prospeccts in this class - and nor is Manziel. Word is most scouts don't even have a first round grade on Manziel and that Derrick Carr might have put himself into the top 12 picks with his pro-day workout in recent days.

    Remember its not college production scouts are that interested in, its more how the skills the players have transfer to the next level. The number of players who have been fantastic college players but have been nothing at the next level is a long one. While Bridgewater is a better prospect than Manziel, both players have limitations compared to someone like a Blake Bortles, who while not the finished product has prototypical size for the position and can make all the throws required to succeed in the NFL.

    Interesting to also hear Odel Beckham has some issues that could drop him out of first day contention - apparently not the hardest trainer in the world - shows you in this outstanding WR class you really have to tick every box apart from having all the physical requirements for the position.
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  6. -26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hungover View Post
    As of this stage Bridgewater isn't in the top 2 QB prospeccts in this class - and nor is Manziel. Word is most scouts don't even have a first round grade on Manziel and that Derrick Carr might have put himself into the top 12 picks with his pro-day workout in recent days.

    Remember its not college production scouts are that interested in, its more how the skills the players have transfer to the next level. The number of players who have been fantastic college players but have been nothing at the next level is a long one. While Bridgewater is a better prospect than Manziel, both players have limitations compared to someone like a Blake Bortles, who while not the finished product has prototypical size for the position and can make all the throws required to succeed in the NFL.

    Interesting to also hear Odel Beckham has some issues that could drop him out of first day contention - apparently not the hardest trainer in the world - shows you in this outstanding WR class you really have to tick every box apart from having all the physical requirements for the position.
    What limits does Bridgewater have that Brotles does not? He's bigger physically. So? The question is can Brotles be taught how to run a pro style offense making all of the checks and progressions that are necessary in an NFL style offense. Bridgewater has done that for 2+ years in a pro style WCO. Bridgewater already does most everything an NFL QB does from a mental standpoint already, and it never went out the window when he stepped on the big stage. His arm is plenty strong enough and his mechanics are already better than Brotles. Brotles may have a stronger arm, but he doesn't get as much as he can out of that arm due to inconsistent mechanics.
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  7. -27
    j-off-her-doll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hungover View Post
    As of this stage Bridgewater isn't in the top 2 QB prospeccts in this class - and nor is Manziel. Word is most scouts don't even have a first round grade on Manziel and that Derrick Carr might have put himself into the top 12 picks with his pro-day workout in recent days.

    Remember its not college production scouts are that interested in, its more how the skills the players have transfer to the next level. The number of players who have been fantastic college players but have been nothing at the next level is a long one. While Bridgewater is a better prospect than Manziel, both players have limitations compared to someone like a Blake Bortles, who while not the finished product has prototypical size for the position and can make all the throws required to succeed in the NFL.

    Interesting to also hear Odel Beckham has some issues that could drop him out of first day contention - apparently not the hardest trainer in the world - shows you in this outstanding WR class you really have to tick every box apart from having all the physical requirements for the position.
    Rating Carr ahead of Bridgewater or Manziel is a mistake. Carr is extremely inefficient passing beyond 10 yards. As a physical talent, Carr is very good - athletic, strong arm, quick release. But he's terrible under pressure, and his instincts and football IQ are poor. You're not paying these guys to look good in shorts. It's true that there are plenty of players with great college production who have failed in the NFL. But how many QB's are great in the NFL after being just OK in college? Bridgewater and Manziel had the best seasons of any of the players with the physical tools necessary to compete at the next level - Carr and Bortles aren't close in that regard. Bortles has some things to like - no doubt - but he's also more of a projection than I'd be willing to make in the top 5 and probably top 10. Carr is a much bigger projection. In my experience, pocket presence and instincts are something you have, or you don't - rather than something to be developed. Carr doesn't have either.
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  8. -28
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    Carr had an exceptional pro day, probably the best of all the QB prospects. Obviously pro days are just that, and not the be all and end all of what a prospect can be - but he showed he can make every throw required and has excellent deep ball accuracy. Yes, he does have issues under pressure, but no QB prospect is near perfect in this class. Bridgewater on the other hand had a terrible pro day, and if you can't perform under those conditions, where every throw is scripted and its the easiest part of the draft process for a QB, then when can you perform? Yes he's a great college competitor but so are many who never even get near an NFL roster. Remember Bridgewater chose not to throw at the Combine, another knock on him, so his pro day was his only chance to perform for scouts. Bortles has embraced the entire draft process and has taken every chance given to him to throw the ball in front of scouts - he has nothing to hide. If Bridgewater or Manziel were the best QB prospects in this class why wouldn't they take the opportunity to display that fact by throwing at the Combine? I'm not saying that Bridgewater won't succeed in the NFL but most scouts think that Bortles and Carr are just better prospects right now.

    Manziel likely just wont make it at the next level - he has poor mechanics and will get cut to pieces if he attempts to make the plays he has been making in college - he's not even a first round prospect and would be a massive reach there. I pity the fans of the team that takes him in the top 15 picks of the draft, but if he performs well under the scripted conditions of his pro day some mug team will buy the hype and draft him there. If he has a quarter of the NFL career of Vince Young I for one will be extremely surprised.
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  9. -29
    j-off-her-doll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hungover View Post
    Carr had an exceptional pro day, probably the best of all the QB prospects. Obviously pro days are just that, and not the be all and end all of what a prospect can be - but he showed he can make every throw required and has excellent deep ball accuracy. Yes, he does have issues under pressure, but no QB prospect is near perfect in this class. Bridgewater on the other hand had a terrible pro day, and if you can't perform under those conditions, where every throw is scripted and its the easiest part of the draft process for a QB, then when can you perform? Yes he's a great college competitor but so are many who never even get near an NFL roster. Remember Bridgewater chose not to throw at the Combine, another knock on him, so his pro day was his only chance to perform for scouts. Bortles has embraced the entire draft process and has taken every chance given to him to throw the ball in front of scouts - he has nothing to hide. If Bridgewater or Manziel were the best QB prospects in this class why wouldn't they take the opportunity to display that fact by throwing at the Combine? I'm not saying that Bridgewater won't succeed in the NFL but most scouts think that Bortles and Carr are just better prospects right now.

    Manziel likely just wont make it at the next level - he has poor mechanics and will get cut to pieces if he attempts to make the plays he has been making in college - he's not even a first round prospect and would be a massive reach there. I pity the fans of the team that takes him in the top 15 picks of the draft, but if he performs well under the scripted conditions of his pro day some mug team will buy the hype and draft him there. If he has a quarter of the NFL career of Vince Young I for one will be extremely surprised.
    How did Andrew Luck look throwing at the Combine? Only the network people complain about QB's skipping the passing portion of the combine. During games - when it matters - Carr and Bortles were the least accurate QB's from 11-20 yards (64.29% compared to Bridgewater's 68.49% and Manziel's 70.51%). On passes over 20 yards, Bridgewater falters at 50.82%, and Bortles is 2nd best at 54.76%. Carr, though, is again the worst at 44.23% - compared with Manziel's 55.84%. You have fun with your shots in the dark. I'll take the guys who can actually play the QB position.
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  10. -30
    hooshoops's Avatar
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    bortles and derek carr are get your head coach and gm fired qbs...
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