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Thread: Top 5 (offense)

  1. -31
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    Quote Originally Posted by j-off-her-doll View Post
    How did Andrew Luck look throwing at the Combine? Only the network people complain about QB's skipping the passing portion of the combine. During games - when it matters - Carr and Bortles were the least accurate QB's from 11-20 yards (64.29% compared to Bridgewater's 68.49% and Manziel's 70.51%). On passes over 20 yards, Bridgewater falters at 50.82%, and Bortles is 2nd best at 54.76%. Carr, though, is again the worst at 44.23% - compared with Manziel's 55.84%. You have fun with your shots in the dark. I'll take the guys who can actually play the QB position.
    You make fair points but the difference between college and the NFL is a gaping chasm, as I alluded to before there are exceptional college QBs who just aren't 3rd string NFL caliber. Exceptional college production does not mean the player will be exceptional in the NFL. How much of that 70 odd % of Manziel came from completions outside the pocket? How much of that 55% were wild tosses for Mike Evans to drag down? These are things NFL scouting departments will be looking closely at and as has been reported in the media many of them do not have a first round grade on Johnny Football.

    Bridgewater is a very solid prospect, but you can't teach size (and remember, people like Rusell Wilson and Drew Brees are exceptions that prove the rule - size matters at the QB position) - which Bortles has - Bridgewater needed to tick every box in the run up to the draft to solidify himself as a top 10 pick, but has fallen at a few hurdles so don't be surprised if he falls on draft day in what many are calling one of the deepest drafts in history.

    College completion rates just don't mean anything at the next level, because at the next level you aren't playing against college level talent - that's the reason why players who have been some of the best players in college history, like Tim Tebow, are now out of the game, and the reason why most scouts project a Bortles or a Carr as much better prospects for the NFL - the qualities they have simply project to greater NFL success compared to a Manziel, awesome as he was in his college career.
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  2. -32
    MiamiDolphin618's Avatar
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    I'm assuming Colt Lyerla is off your board? He's got some problems..but I would definitely be digging into him with an interview, coaches, etc. Pure football standpoint I think he's better than Ebron personally. We're talking about a kid who may go undrafted and has top 20 talent all day.
    I'd risk it
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  3. -33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hungover View Post
    You make fair points but the difference between college and the NFL is a gaping chasm, as I alluded to before there are exceptional college QBs who just aren't 3rd string NFL caliber. Exceptional college production does not mean the player will be exceptional in the NFL. How much of that 70 odd % of Manziel came from completions outside the pocket? How much of that 55% were wild tosses for Mike Evans to drag down? These are things NFL scouting departments will be looking closely at and as has been reported in the media many of them do not have a first round grade on Johnny Football.

    Bridgewater is a very solid prospect, but you can't teach size (and remember, people like Rusell Wilson and Drew Brees are exceptions that prove the rule - size matters at the QB position) - which Bortles has - Bridgewater needed to tick every box in the run up to the draft to solidify himself as a top 10 pick, but has fallen at a few hurdles so don't be surprised if he falls on draft day in what many are calling one of the deepest drafts in history.

    College completion rates just don't mean anything at the next level, because at the next level you aren't playing against college level talent - that's the reason why players who have been some of the best players in college history, like Tim Tebow, are now out of the game, and the reason why most scouts project a Bortles or a Carr as much better prospects for the NFL - the qualities they have simply project to greater NFL success compared to a Manziel, awesome as he was in his college career.
    No, Tim Tebow is out of football because he wasn't a very good QB that could only run one type of offense. It had nothing to do with his completion percentage. Just watch Bridgewater's ball placement. Ignore his 70+% completion rate. Just LOOK at his elite ball placement and accuracy.

    When most people talk about Wilson and Bree's "size" they're almost always referring to their height. Both are under 6 feet tall. Bridgewater was a legit 6'2" at the combine and weighed in at 214 lbs which was under the 220 lbs he played at while here in Louisville. Sure his frame is slight but the kid is still just 21 years old. The only injury he ever had in college was due to an illegal horse collar tackle in the UConn game his sophomore year and that was a broken non-throwing hand and a badly sprained ankle. He came in the next game against Rutgers on those injuries and lead the team to victory. He then went to the Sugar Bowl, got popped in the mouth by Jon Bostic, got up, and on the next play (3rd and 15) threw an 18 yard strike into a mailbox across the middle for first down.

    Sure you can't teach "size" but you also can't teach toughness. Bridgewater's size is just fine.

    I can understand if you don't think Bridgewater is an elite prospect, everyone has their own opinion. But at least base your opinion on something credible.
    Insert pithy saying here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LouPhinFan View Post
    No, Tim Tebow is out of football because he wasn't a very good QB that could only run one type of offense. It had nothing to do with his completion percentage. Just watch Bridgewater's ball placement. Ignore his 70+% completion rate. Just LOOK at his elite ball placement and accuracy.

    When most people talk about Wilson and Bree's "size" they're almost always referring to their height. Both are under 6 feet tall. Bridgewater was a legit 6'2" at the combine and weighed in at 214 lbs which was under the 220 lbs he played at while here in Louisville. Sure his frame is slight but the kid is still just 21 years old. The only injury he ever had in college was due to an illegal horse collar tackle in the UConn game his sophomore year and that was a broken non-throwing hand and a badly sprained ankle. He came in the next game against Rutgers on those injuries and lead the team to victory. He then went to the Sugar Bowl, got popped in the mouth by Jon Bostic, got up, and on the next play (3rd and 15) threw an 18 yard strike into a mailbox across the middle for first down.

    Sure you can't teach "size" but you also can't teach toughness. Bridgewater's size is just fine.

    I can understand if you don't think Bridgewater is an elite prospect, everyone has their own opinion. But at least base your opinion on something credible.
    The way bridgewater has been treated by fans, bloggers, and media types, is IMO the craziest thing I've seem in this hears draft.

    Dude is either not talked about at all, or he's talked about like he's garbage. It's ridiculous, and makes no sense. It's like being a good kid, a ridicukously hard worker, with not many weaknesses, and clearly being one of the best qbs last season, is hurting him. Media talks about every qb, But him.
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    To reiterate, I don't think Bridgewater is a bad prospect, he's certainly not "garbage" and when I talk about his size I'm merely just comparing him to a Bortles who is 3 inches taller. If Bortles does indeed go higher in the draft as Bridgewater, as looks likely, there will be reasons why.
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  6. -36
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    Surprised no one on this board has even referenced Manziel's Pro Day.
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    1972 Dolphins Logo
    I don't think there's much to say about his pro day. If you were an NFL General Manager, would the pro day really change your mind one way or another? If I have serious concerns about how well he will hold up in the NFL (mentally and physically), a nice showing at his pro day doesn't convince me to draft him. If I think he's just got whatever that X-Factor is that makes some guys great, it doesn't matter how bad he looked at his pro day, I'd still draft him. If I have both the serious concerns and the expectation that he's got that X-Factor... then it depends on who's on the board and how badly I need a starting QB, now doesn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by xXwarXx View Post
    The way bridgewater has been treated by fans, bloggers, and media types, is IMO the craziest thing I've seem in this hears draft.

    Dude is either not talked about at all, or he's talked about like he's garbage. It's ridiculous, and makes no sense. It's like being a good kid, a ridicukously hard worker, with not many weaknesses, and clearly being one of the best qbs last season, is hurting him. Media talks about every qb, But him.
    I think what we're seeing right now is rooted in two things:

    1. Johnny Football is a guy you either love to love, or love to hate.
    2. Bridgewater was the consensus media #1 pick for so long that they got tired of him.

    I think that Teddy Bridgewater will be the #1 pick in the draft and we're just overthinking things. Kind of like in 2012 when you just knew Andrew Luck was going to be first overall, because there's no way the Colts would be that stupid, right? And then we got all the talk about Griffin and even the rumors that Griffin could go #1 overall. Yeah, right.
    I'm here to tell the truth about top secret Air Force project BAR STOOL. Gamma ray radiation from the particle accelerator under Joe Robbie Stadium is real! Get out while you can! This bad football team is just a front for something far more sinister!
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    Quote Originally Posted by j-off-her-doll View Post
    Surprised no one on this board has even referenced Manziel's Pro Day.
    Tony Pauline ‏@TonyPauline 16 hrs

    @Hummer53 its inside and they're blaring music as he workouts....sadly they are not playing Led Zeppelin...5th rounder on my board now..
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  9. -39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hungover View Post
    Tony Pauline ‏@TonyPauline 16 hrs

    @Hummer53 its inside and they're blaring music as he workouts....sadly they are not playing Led Zeppelin...5th rounder on my board now..
    As a lover of jazz, blues, and rock from the 20s to present day, Led Zeppelin is one of the most overrated, worthless bands of all time. Talent show, dungeons and dragons bull ****. If he had said the Stones or Velvet Underground, I might have given that a half-chuckle.
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  10. -40
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. David Wannyheimer View Post
    I don't think there's much to say about his pro day. If you were an NFL General Manager, would the pro day really change your mind one way or another? If I have serious concerns about how well he will hold up in the NFL (mentally and physically), a nice showing at his pro day doesn't convince me to draft him. If I think he's just got whatever that X-Factor is that makes some guys great, it doesn't matter how bad he looked at his pro day, I'd still draft him. If I have both the serious concerns and the expectation that he's got that X-Factor... then it depends on who's on the board and how badly I need a starting QB, now doesn't it?



    I think what we're seeing right now is rooted in two things:

    1. Johnny Football is a guy you either love to love, or love to hate.
    2. Bridgewater was the consensus media #1 pick for so long that they got tired of him.

    I think that Teddy Bridgewater will be the #1 pick in the draft and we're just overthinking things. Kind of like in 2012 when you just knew Andrew Luck was going to be first overall, because there's no way the Colts would be that stupid, right? And then we got all the talk about Griffin and even the rumors that Griffin could go #1 overall. Yeah, right.
    For me, the Pro Day didn't do much. I've been saying that his arm is more than good enough and that he has the best down-field accuracy of any QB in this class - and that he has elite intangibles. But there have been many posts that question these very things - along with his general ability as a passer. And when comparing his Pro Day to Bridgewater's, I do think it should factor in to some extent. During the season, Manziel more accurate down the field than Bridgewater. You can say that it's not that important, but Ryan Tannehill. Also, Manziel owned his Pro Day, showed the dynamic leadership qualities (whether or not you like him) that you want to see. Bridgewater either shrank in the moment, had a bad day, or raised some red flags about his throwing ability. They don't do these for nothing. Now, I still like Bridgewater an awful lot, but for most people, it should make them reconsider some things. You can't teach a guy to be a star. And for those on the board that have been consistent in their preference for Tannehill over Manziel, it should change a hell of a lot.
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